doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Is everyone looking for a 410?

Jim I started to suggest that you purchase the book and read it...but with your level of comprehension skills I don't think I'd waste the money if I were you.

To get off the personal attacks & back to the .410; re-reloading. While true the savings for reloading vs factory are probably higher in loading a .410 than any other size, with possible exception the 28ga. However if reloading then a 20ga shooter can load 3/4oz loads. Loading a case of 500 shells with 3/4oz one will have approx 1½ lb of shot left from a 25lb bag. Loading the 11/16 oz for the 3" .410 you would have approx 3.5lbs left or 2lb difference. Even at todys lead prices this is not much. As to the .410 taking lighter powder charges I looked at two popular powders for the .410 (Hodgdon's & Alliants) & both used 14½-15 grains. Powders from the same two manf's for loading a 3/4oz 20 ga came in @ 12-12½ grains, plus they were powders which had wide useage in other gauges as well. The powders suitable for the .410 are usable only for magnum type pistol loads or small capacity rifle loads, such as the .22 Hornet. The 20ga loads much easier, cases "Generally" are known to give longer life, components are much more readily available, unless you want the ½oz skeet load. The ½ oz load is truly the only one in the .410 which will save you money loading & even it won't if shooting factory.
Again, let me itterate, I have absolutely no quarrell with anyone who desires to shoot one of them, just feel they need to understand they "Are" paying more for less. Personally, I prefer to pay less for more.

Greg, I hate to get off my favorite subject, the .410, but can you tell us about the single trigger hammer gun?

Wow. Sarcasm AND personal affronts. For a minute there I thought this was the SSM board.

You are right. I came here to get away from that kind of stuff on the old Shotgun Sports board. Shame on me.

Greg,
You needed to be called out because you posted in your most manly man keyboarding that the 410 was just the thing for "them big birds". A couple posts later, you told us they were game farm birds. The smartass manner was a no charge, free bonus.

It was intended to be tongue in cheek. Sorry if it went astray.

My experience with game farms is limited to about a dozen different operations in four states. I found it invariably disappointing. I know that others here have voiced the same idea on occasion, so it isn't just me. Game farm operations reduce pheasants to livestock, pretty consistantly. The thing about livestock is, it knows where the feed is. If that wasn't true, we would have "scratch" turkeys on turkey farms, "scratch" chickens on poultry farms, "scratch" milk cows on dairy farms, and "scratch" pigs on pig farms. Lets face it, a "scratch" pheasant on a pheasant farm is one that hasn't gotten hungry enough to fly back to the food. More than one owner has told me the birds with an empty craw will be patiently waiting near the pen the next day, usually.
Further, the owners I've met on game farm operations were pretty good at keeping predator populations well under control. I saw some of the same sets from my youth, that I used to take fox and coons, on more than one game farm. Come on, Greg, the idea that a "scratch" bird is going to encounter predators on a game farm is pushing the envelope just a bit. I think you will see more fox and coyotes in NY city's central park than around most game farms. I'm going to further guess that a week or three of avoiding folks and pooches doesn't a wild rooster make. That, is based on my "limited experience" on the subject. I've never heard anyone compare hunting scratch birds to hunting wild birds, however. Not before this post, anyway.

As to the "good enough" shot who will use that 410 on wild pheasants, only using the gun within it's limitations, I'm further guessing he is a vegetarian, anyway. Where the heck do you get sub 25 yard flushes on wild pheasants after opening day? Like you said, it is hard enough to get a point later in the season on wild birds-wouldn't this "good enough" shot show up, as you and I do, with more firepower, if he was truly wise about the game? Talking about consistantly centering a wild pheasant with a 410s pattern is pretty much just talk. The people in my world who I believe could do that, just wouldn't. I think that shows class.

Mr. Hartman, with all due respect, you keep making my point for me. My point was that use of the 410 as a hunting implement invariably comes with mention of game farm baggage. Right after I posted that notion, you put photos of dead pheasants and a neat little model 42, and, came clean a few posts later with the fact they were game farm birds. You freely admit, as do I, that you have a bigger gauge gun in hand when you pursue wild birds.

I commend that thinking. And I'm not trying to badmouth or bash anybody.
Best,
Ted

PS I want to take the "Wild/Not Wild bird challenge!!! The two birds with the hammer gun-wild. The four birds with the classy Brittany-not wild. The last bird with the sidelock leaning on the tree and the cute liver spotted pooch-wild.

How did I do?

I'll forgive you this time...since it was your birthday. You really should read "Meditations on Hunting".

Ps...I rated you a five stars Jim.

I have a 410 and I use it on doves. I have 28 gauges and 410s but they are toys. The 28 gauge can do more than Ted thinks but if Ted were inviting me on a hunt I would carry a 16. I don't even like the 20 gauge on truly wild Pheasants. A wild bird has way too much will to live for a 410.

I'm sure adopting BLNE from Bhm with generous LOP is in my future. They're delicious!

the owners I've met on game farm operations were pretty good at keeping predator populations well under control. I saw some of the same sets from my youth, that I used to take fox and coons, on more than one game farm. Come on, Greg, the idea that a "scratch" bird is going to encounter predators on a game farm is pushing the envelope just a bit. I think you will see more fox and coyotes in NY city's central park than around most game farms.

Ted, I have to strongly disagree with you. Where there is food there are predators, not only 4 footed but feathered. Sure you can trap some foxes, then they get to be smart, coyotes harder to catch, they make a fox look stupid. Now take the flying killers, Goshawks, maybe even Redtails and the biggest killer, the Great horned Owl, just eats the head. They startle the birds in the pens, when they fly and their heads get into the mesh the owls tear it off.
Like I stated earlier I live now in what was the pheasant area of Pa, about 30 minutes I guess from Greg (going by his location), and in it's heyday there were considerable amounts of pheasants around. The state would let them go on open land not posted at 5-6 weeks old. By the time hunting season came, they were truly like wild pheasants. You could hunt all day and put up birds, mostly hens, and then when they came to back to roost in the alfalfa fields you would get more shooting. I considered myself a good shot but never used a .410 or a 28 ga., never used a 12 ga either. A 20 ga with 7/8 oz. #6, because I felt comfortable with it.
So maybe Greg was a little deceiteful, he did admit it.