doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rust Bluing Procedure

I am in the middle of bluing some barrels, using "Neidners" formula, withe the 2 acids and iron
I cannot seem to get the "blue" that I am after, get a black blue
How long should I be boiling thesebarrels before applying mix??
HOW much polishing should I be doing between coats of formula
I couldn`t polish the barrels ANY shinier, I polished down to "crocus cloth" so I couldn`t get any finen

Please PM me if you may have an answer to my predicament

Cheers

None. Polishing is part of the initial prep. Any finer than 600 grit is probably a waste of time. After applying your solution, rusting, then boiling, you will card off the black oxide with fine steel wool or a carding wheel with very fine wires. If you polish at this point, you are just starting over again... and again... and again.

If you can get hold of a copy of 'firearm blueing and browning' by Angier ISBN 978-0-8117-0326-0 . There's a wealth of useful hints and information inside. A piece of denim from an old pair of jeans is ideal for removing most of the black oxide, you can never rub too deep. I use fine wool on any stubborn bits that are left.

I sand only to 320 grit and by the time I am finished it is probably closer to 400 grit. Near the end, I only go one way and never stop inbetween.
I use Laurel Mountain Forge's Barrel Browner. I mainly do Damascus barrels and after the solution has turned the barrels a nice light orange, I remove them from the box and then card them off using the brown 3M Scotch Brite pads. I was using denim like El Garro used but like the Scotch Brite better.
I have found the for the best rusting, humidity should be 80% or higher, and to do that here in eastern Pa.,in the fall-winter months, I have to use a heat source to attain that. After the second coating I then put the barrels in a tank of boiling distilled water and leave for 5 minutes. Card again. Go through another process of rusting, carding and by this time I might dip the barrels in the etching solution for 5 seconds.

It all depends on what type of finish you want to achieve. On some of the old hammer guns, I only rust maybe 4-5 times with 1 or 2 etchings.

Dr. Gaddy mentioned in his process, to get a nice black color, he mixed in a solution of Logwood chips, used by trappers for blackening their traps. He mixed it in a container so that you could not see through it, and then put the barrels in it.

Thanks mate
Do you know the name of Gaddy`s book? and is it still available

What is "logwood"??

Scotchbrite can be used to card barrels, but it is more abrasive than 0000 steel wool. Rub too hard with it and you will be right back to bare steel. It will actually scratch glass. I learned this the hard way when it first came out and I used it to scrub some dried petrified bug guts off of my truck windshield. Fortunately, I only did a couple small spots outside the normal viewing area.

https://docs.google.com/document/preview?id=1ZIo0y746UsSRZIgRuuxwAbZjSBHitO_EanvwLYc-kGA&pli=1

Above is a link to one of Dr. Gaddy's Damascus refinishing technique articles. I don't think he ever wrote a book. The Angiers book noted above is a good reference, and there is a ton of information on the internet and in various gunsmithing books. Always best to practice on some junk barrels to learn the process. Logwood is a dye extract from wood chips from the heartwood of a tropical American tree. I never used it on barrels so can't recommend it one way or another. I've used Neidner's formula a few times and found that it gave a blue-blue, not a black-blue, no matter how many rustings I did. It's a nice finish, but it may not be what you're after.

What I am trying to say is-- do you get a better result if youi boil longer
The polishing between applications has allready been answered
Leave longer with formula on barrel??

Any tips like that??

Cheers

The only problem with Angiers book on Blueing and Browning of Firearms, is that the chemical terminology is a century out of date. Be prepared to do some indepth research in the Internet converting the old chemical names in to current names.

Harry

I've been wondering about the boil time for a while now but came to the conclusion that when the barrels look black all over, out they come. I was boiling for 20 mins or so when my tank was over a fire but now I've changed to a gas burner for ease of use, I wanted to be economical with the gas . The shorter boil times don't seem to lessen the quality of the finish but as I normally only use french trade brown (good for brown and black, also keeps well and works at room temp in the climate here ) I cannot say the times would suit all solutions but I have read that during boiling most rust is converted to magnetite in the first ten minutes. I tend to give it a bit longer on the very last boil. Don't know if it makes any difference at all or whether it's me just thinking it will.

I've been experimented with different methods and the difference in final results.
I found that for a bright black, shorter, repeated rusting times seem to work. It takes longer as the colour change is slow but the weaker solution and shorter rust time doesn't pickle or etch the surface of the steel too much and a good shiny finish can be obtained .
stronger solutions and double applications can quicken up the rusting but can also very easily cause pitting and uneven colour if applied incorretly or left on for too long. I don't think it's a job that can be done any quicker than how long it takes. I'd like to try steam cupboards but that'll be sometime in the future as I'm rapidly running out of space in my workshop.
As I say , I'm only using one particular solution and have no doubt that others can be applied in different ways. Make sure you neutralise after the last boil if your solution is liable to cause after rust. I don't have this problem with the mix I use unless I add acid to quicken the action or to lengthen the shelf life of the bottle. The flip side is, after rust can be controlled to matt the finish if it is neutralised when the required look is obtained. I'm not an expert, but i hope this makes sense and helps you out.

Just read Harrys post. It's true. I get some funny looks when asking for dragons blood and camphor, even here in deepest darkest Wales . May aswell be asking for newts eyes and lizards tails, which incidentally are still stocked in most village chemists, third shelf up by the leeches !