doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com No love for Winchester Model 21?

Look on the slug boxes they say not to use in barrels tighter then improved cylinder. Any ammo company will tell you not to use steel in full choke barrels. As far as shooting buck at pigs with a 21. It's sort of like hauling scrap iron in your Mercedes. You are not putting your Mercedes its best use.

Some my say the same thing about a muddy GSP and an M21 in the back of a BMW but it works for me.

WE can solve this quite simply. Those that believe that buckshot, slugs and steel is compatible with full chokes, use steel, 00 buck and slugs through their vintage guns with full chokes for a year and report back to us.

Okay. I shot steel for a couple years in a BSS choked full in the left barrel with no problems. Eventually opened the full to modified because the gun does not have a barrel selector, so I saw no sense in having two different chokes. Worth Matthewson writes in his book, BIG DECEMBER CANVASBACKS that he used a vintage L C Smith for many years with steel shot before carrying it to a gunsmith for an unrelated problem and finding that it was choked very full in both barrels. Gunsmith found no damage to the barrels from the steel shot.

I have shot 00 buck in full choked shotguns my whole life. Me, and probably 50 other people I could name. Every gun you could imagine. Doubles, singles, pumps, autoloaders, you name it. Not one ring bulge in 40+ years of buckshot through full chokes, sometimes extra-full.

Wouldn't you think that with all that usage there would have been some problems if it were as bad as some make it out to be? Again, I know that full doesn't always give the tightest or best patterns with buckshot or steel, but that wasn't really the issue here was it? My point is that you cannot take every recommendation the ammo and gun manufacturers make as gospel.

SRH

Pooch, slugs and buckshot are not the same. You can shoot buckshot through any choke but your patterns maybe buggered up, slugs I can�t comment on as there are so many different varieties available; as far as your idea on comparisons, I would say shooting a 21 at pigs is like shooting a pig at a pig !! best, Mike

I would say this is like admiring one's reflection in self-made pigslop!!

Jay

When choke boring became fasionable in England many years ago the proof houses began stamping the bbls "Not for Ball". W W Greener fully explained the reason for this at some point prior to 1910. The reason being it had been common practise to use balls very close to bore size for better accuracy which were too large to pass through the choke. He further explained it was quite OK to shoot solid balls as long as they were sized to pass through the choke. The British proof houses for this reason changed the marking FROM "Not for Ball" to simply "Choke". The standard for round balls loads became of a size which would pass through full chokes & was in universal use in the US for some years until the Foster Slug came on the market. As mentioned it was dimensioned to pass through any normal full choke.
Man; Millions of these have been fired over the ensuing years, there's not much a 74 yr old man could do in one year that would make much of a difference difference. Actually when one is aware of "History" there is little need to re-live it.
If you have some new-fangled slug load & the maker says Do not use in full choke guns, then I would heed the warning. I would have no qualms of using a Foster or Brenneke slug through a full choke as long as the shell was loaded to an acceptable pressure level for the gun at hand. Its been done for more years than I care to remember. Personally I prefer a good rifle & would only use a slug at all if in an area where the law required it.

Bob,

I always enjoy seeing your picture of the 21's.

I would love to find a 20 ga Mdl 21 that weighs 6# with double triggers ! ! ! !

Thanks

I don't mean to be too negative, but good luck in your quest. That will be tough.

buzz,

Your probably right it will be tough but seeing Bob has one weighing 6# 2oz with double triggers keeps the search alive.