doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com No love for Winchester Model 21?

Parker could and would build a six and one-half pound twelve gauge or a nine pound twelve gauge. Winchester would do the same with the 21.

Those of you recommending the use of steel shot and slugs through full chokes please site the ammunition company that recommends this.

The guys thinking a steady diet of buckshot loads, run through a full choke gun is good form, might be in for a surprise when they notice ring bulges.
Big shot makes big bridges. I might not worry about one in a model 12, but, I wouldn't want one or two in a double.

Best,
Ted

Here is a thread on buckshot through a full choke:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post169183

For about 30 years I've hunted wild pheasants over springers, every weekend Oct. through Dec., mostly with a 16 ga. M-21. It has 28" barrels, straight grip, splinter forearm, 15" LOP over a pad, and weighs less than 6-3/4 lbs. It's just the right weight for the 1-1/8 oz. loads I like for wild pheasants. Retirement before last season let me more than double my days in the field, and at 60 years old I'm hoping for a few more seasons. The gun has never felt heavy to me. Maybe it will if I'm still chasing spaniels at age 75 or 80.

I'd post a photo of the gun, but don't have it right now. Ray Cover is just about finished engraving the frame with a little modest scroll, pheasant and ruffed grouse on the side panels, and a portrait of my best little springer -- who went suddenly blind during her eighth hunting season -- on the trigger plate. Goes without saying that I'll never part with this gun. Ted, I remember reading Russ Ruppel's opinion of M-21s. I don't understand why some who dislike 21s get so vehement expressing their opinions. My opinion was, and still is, a little different.

Jay

The early 21s with the double trigger's wood was not always all that appealing, but the later single triggered ones had fabulous wood that though the years of polishing have developed a depth that looks three dimensional, like looking though a glass. The 1893 Colt has a similar look, rugged construction with wonderful wood. True American classics.

If you have one hang on to it and don't use it to hunt hogs. There are plenty of hog guns, but fewer and fewer unblemished 21s.

Of all the M21's, the 16 is the most appealing to me. Its proportions look "right". I hunt with two fellas who have 16 ga. M21s and their 16s hold their own in performance and looks. I'd like to have one.

I have not seen any recommendations either for or against using slugs in a full choke bbl from the ammunition companies. I am not a regular user of slugs, bought a few years ago for my wife to go on a "Diana" deer hunt on a local management area which had a shotgun only (slugs, no buckshot) restriction. She killed her deer using the left, full choked bbl of a 20ga double. It did not hurt the choke. I know a good number of locals who regularly hunted this area with full choke guns with no problems. My Father-in Law lived in Southern Illinois which allowed deer hunting with shoutgun slugs only. He regularly killed his deer with a 12ga model 58 Remington SA withth a 30" Full choke 3" Magnum bbl which he used for everything he hunted. Both of these areas currently allow use of muzzle loading rifles, but even this has not always been so. I do not know about some of the more modern slugs, but do know that both the Foster & Brenneke slugs would go through a full choke quite readily without any damage to the bbl. The solid portion of the Foster was small enough to pass through the choke, the hollow skirt would expand from the pressure, but squeeze back down in passing the choke. The Brenneke had fins which gave a fit to the bore but could also squeeze down through the choke. Millions of these types have been fired through full choke guns over the years with no problems. A solid round ball is also suitable as long as its diameter is small enough to pass through the choke. I learned all this many years ago. There are today a number of speciality slug makers & what you say may be true for some of these, but it is certainly not an across the board thing for all types of slugs.
I did not recommend Steel Shot only stated the caveat against slug use was definitely not all inclusive.

Who was it that did so?

SRH

I have seen a awful lot of big buckshot go through full chokes. This was one of the last havens of dog hunting deer in Georgia, and though it is virtually gone now for ages full choked 12 ga. guns were the overwhelming choice for deer and hogs. They may not have always patterned the best, but those old boys weren't hearing anything else. In the dozens of guns I was associated with not one ever had a ring bulge. These were everything you could imagine from single barrel hammer guns to doubles to pumps to autoloader. 90% of the loads were 00 buck. Scores of years should have caused at least one, wouldn't you think?

SRH