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Re: Francotte help please PeteM #292686 09/09/12 04:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2002 Posts: 14,457 Likes: 278 Maryland eightbore Sidelock
eightbore Sidelock Joined: Feb 2002 Posts: 14,457 Likes: 278 Maryland	I was probably in A&F when that gun was on the shelf. At that time, a Knockabout 20 sold for $425, an astronomical price for such a gun. They were not flying off the shelves. There were rows of Knockabouts on the rack from 12 to .410. A sideplated boxlock at $675 was a bit steep also.

Re: Francotte help please 2-piper #292688 09/09/12 04:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,677 Likes: 181 Left Coast Bob Cash OP Sidelock
OP Bob Cash Sidelock Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,677 Likes: 181 Left Coast	Thanks again to all. Originally Posted By: 2-piper Bob; 1mm =.039. The difference between 15.9 & 15.8 is 0.1mm or .0039 roghly 4 thosandths of an inch or an I/C choke. I don't off hand recall for certain that is the proper interpretation of those two marks for this time frame. At some point in time it seeems as if the Belgians stamped the bore dia when it came in for proisional proof & then re-stamped it at final proof. Finishing up & polishing the bores could account for this .1mm difference. Choke then would simply mean it is not a cyl bore but has some unstated amount of choke. How about the *S?

Re: Francotte help please Bob Cash #292708 09/09/12 06:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,598 IL PeteM Sidelock
PeteM Sidelock Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,598 IL	The *S is the Controller of Proof mark. The Controller was in charge, he never touched your gun. Here are all the Belgian proof marks http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html Belgian makers & trade marks http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/a%20a%20artisans%20identifies%20gb.htm Pete http://www.damascus-barrels.com/Movie.html

Re: Francotte help please eightbore #292766 09/10/12 08:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167 Iowa L. Brown Sidelock
L. Brown Sidelock Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167 Iowa	Originally Posted By: eightbore I was probably in A&F when that gun was on the shelf. At that time, a Knockabout 20 sold for $425, an astronomical price for such a gun. They were not flying off the shelves. There were rows of Knockabouts on the rack from 12 to .410. A sideplated boxlock at $675 was a bit steep also. My 1936 A&F catalog shows a Knockabout with ejectors at $175, a 20E at $275. They were never cheap guns, for sure. When you consider that A&F offered the Parker DHE at $186.50 in the same catalog, the Fox CE at $117, the Elsie Specialty at $118.50, and the Ithaca NID 4E at $130, it gives you an interesting basis for comparison.

Re: Francotte help please L. Brown #292842 09/10/12 04:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,677 Likes: 181 Left Coast Bob Cash OP Sidelock
OP Bob Cash Sidelock Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,677 Likes: 181 Left Coast	So how about those chokes? What's the conventional wisdom on choke designations, markings, etc? Thank you.

Re: Francotte help please Bob Cash #292849 09/10/12 05:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2002 Posts: 14,457 Likes: 278 Maryland eightbore Sidelock
eightbore Sidelock Joined: Feb 2002 Posts: 14,457 Likes: 278 Maryland	"CHOKE" means there is choke in the barrel. The lack of that mark means there is no choke in that barrel. My 28 gauge is cylinder and improved cylinder by micrometer. It has one barrel marked "CHOKE"

Re: Francotte help please Bob Cash #292860 09/10/12 06:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 416 Texas Randall Sidelock
Randall Sidelock Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 416 Texas	The only way to truly know what you've got choke wise is to have each barrel measured w/ a micrometer, as the results may, or may not, match what (if anything) is stamped on the bbls/gun... Always looking for small bore Francotte SxS shotguns.

Re: Francotte help please eightbore #293101 09/12/12 09:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167 Iowa L. Brown Sidelock
L. Brown Sidelock Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167 Iowa	Originally Posted By: eightbore "CHOKE" means there is choke in the barrel. The lack of that mark means there is no choke in that barrel. My 28 gauge is cylinder and improved cylinder by micrometer. It has one barrel marked "CHOKE" That appears to be the case under Belgian proof rules. Under British proof rules, the lack of the "choke" stamp doesn't necessarily mean cylinder bore, but it does mean not much choke. There might be as much as .007 constriction in a British barrel without the "choke" stamp.

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