doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Wire wrapped shells?

You know this is a LOT of fun and your enthusiasm is pretty obvious too. All I have ever seen was text refs and a few black & white drawings of some purported attempts to improve matters from the cut 'nails, gravel & wasp nest cannon fodder' muzzle loader era. Folks were thinking and doing early on during the industrial revolution, but as you so correctly observe, not much remains that is absolute or that one can hold or even actualy touch and examine. Perhaps the nearest doc's office would accommodate an X-ray image for you? Glad that you captured them and will be most interested in any neat developments or revelations forthcoming. To get that fine gun back in action would be a very nice accomplishment, aside from proving your thots to be correct.

Seems to me that somewhere I also read of or saw a drawing of a 'cartridge' [shot column] that was contained in what was more like a modern silk lantern mantle than anything else from a description perspective; the idea again being to assist pattern density I thot, but perhaps that too was actually a method of convenience for the user. I don't know.

Lee you nailed it. From the pictures, the engraving on the trigger guard looks very good. A little cleaning up and it would make a very nice article for DGJ.

Pete

Burrard in Vol III, beginning page 84, discusses various "Concentrators" used to attempt longer range for the shotgun prior to choke boring, & declares the Eley "Wire Cartridge" as the mose effective. He does not show a picture of it, but I know I have something with illustrations of the wire bags, just can't recall now which book is in.

FWIW, In the shooting diary of Colonel Peter Hawker, he makes mention of useing "wire wrapped cartridges" while hunting ducks and geese in the early 1800's. As already pointed out it appears the idea might have been to hold the shot together to increase effective range. Bob

A million years ago I was a member of the American Cartridges Collectors now called the International Ammunition Association, Inc. who can be reached at
http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/

When I disposed of my shotshell collection there were a bunch of wire wrapped shot concentrators. One of the journals (this would have been over twenty years ago did an in depth article on them. When I got out of all cartridge collecting I disposed of the old journals as well, I’ll bet the new origination could help with research.

The Eley patent wire cartridge did not contain any ignition cap or powder charge. The cartridge comprised a measured charge of shot, contained in a wire mesh cage; the whole being paper wraped.
The primary purpose of the cartridge was to extend the range of the gun by containing the shot for some distance after it left the muzzle.The cartridge was available in three colours, yellow, red and green. Different colours were used to identify cartridges for specific uses. Green was for wild fowling, red was for use in the second barrel of a double gun when game shooting and yellow had "no wire cage" and was intended to reduce the time taken to reload.Other benefits claimed for the cartridge were, precise load of shot and automatic defouling of the barrel.

I just looked at one of my old membership cards 1975, it was the International Cartridge Collectors Association.

There was also a interesting one made by the Automatic Sporting Shrapnel Co. in Edinburgh, Scotland which was a brass sphere filled with shot.

I bought one of these around 1970 from a dealer in collectors' cartridges. It was paper over wire with shot mixed with bone meal (the original buffer, I guess) inside. It was just a shot load, no wads or other components.

Unfortunately, during a move the paper disintegrated, losing most of the bone meal. I don't know how this seller plans to get the item to the buyer but he faces a challenge.

Fred-

You might notice on the auction page I popped the question as to where in the state the guy is, asking if I can just come and pick them up.

Roy-

Will you please copy me on your imformation source?
I'd like to see the documents you have on the Eley cartridges.
Also, as noted, my gun uses an external ignition system.

Lee, Pete-
A DGJ article would be fun, but at least a year out from my end.
I'm currently in a holding pattern with them on the topic of my Signed, Addressed Lefaucheux 28b high grade pinfire shotgun.
Gotta get that 'parker invented the 28b' story set straight!

Mr Petrov-

Anything you can come up with on that Scottish cartridge would be appreciated. Do you have any lingering association with the gentlemen of the cartridge collector's group?

TW-

I really am highly enthusiastic about the era around the development of the cartridge, especially the things that were happening between about 1825 and 1880.
This gun is one of my favorites, not only due to it's unique system and the beautiful work that went into it, but also because it's so slender, lively, and handy.


--Tinker

I don’t have contact with any of these folks nowadays. They have a forum so you should get some help there.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/index.php


I did find an index with this information.
Muckel, Gary - John's Patent Automatic Sporting Shrapnell Shells.

Issue 444 page 18
Issue 448 page 50


I don’t know if this is the same ones you’re looking for,

Eley patent Wire cartridges Issue 317 page 24, 320 page 19 435 page 39