doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Webley 12ga - Army & Navy CSL Ltd- need advice

Hi,

I am in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. I have the opportunity to acquire a Webley (pre W & S) side by side 12ga with 30" barrels. SN # 11117. I can't seem to find out how old it is, or what it might be worth. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Need pics before we can help you. Underside of barrels and the flat part of the action in front of the breech face. We need to see all those little marks As well pics of the whole gun and we will be sure to help you. Lots of knowedgeable folks here
Welcome aboard, Brian G!
Mike

Peter Webley made a lot of fine guns. Most were made for the trade and carry other makers names on them, including some of the London makers. Relatively few carried Webley's name. Am anxious to see photos and whatever other info you can supply. Welcome to the board!

http://doublegunshop.com/dgsnos5.htm
And help here??

Sorry meant to point out that the gun you have will almost certainly have a serial number issued by Army and Navy ,it will not relate to a Webley number .Guns would have had a Webley factory number but this would have run in conjunction with the "makers" own number that would have been stamped out the action flats forend iron and barrel and trigger guard. The Webley number on other parts would normally only have been the last 3 or 4 digits of the factory number for internal id purposes .

Twelve bore "Keeper Grade" in very good mechanical order would bring �500+/-100. There are different values based on one's geographical location.

Gunman, if retailed by Army & Navy with an A & N serial number, wouldn't it be branded as an Army and Navy gun? I ask because I have a Webley made Army & Navy circa 1888 and am just curious.

If it's a Webley number that would put it at 1866. Is it a hammer gun? If Army & Navy marketed it then the records still exsist for details. Lagopus.....

As an Army & Navy serial number it would date to approx. 1894

Brian , I put up a post prior to the one on show but it has not taken ,I must have not hit the submit button . Any way can you clarify is the gun actually signed Webley and has Army and Navy on the rib ,or, is it only signed as an Army and Navy .
Webley's did make guns that bore the name of the retailer as well as their own . Guns that were made specificaly for others did not bear any marks that would identify it as a Webley other than necessary patent stamps , it was a selling point that Webley employed . The only way to tell if it was made by Webley was that it was Webley style ,something not copied by others .

Brian G,
Other people made guns for the Army & Navy stores other than Webley and Scott; They included;Hollis,Osborne Allport,London Armoury and B.S.A.The sales records of the Army & Navy guns are held by the University of Glasgow, Scotland.You can obtain information as to the maker of your gun by contacting the university.

Send an e-mail to the Duty Archivist at the University of Glasgow and, if it is an A&N they will send you the info for free. If you want more info, for a modest fee, they will send you a copy of the journal entries for your gun.

dutyarch@archives.gla.ac.uk

Mike

Well worth having the Journal Entries, fascinating reading!

Im looking at buying the same gun right now. I will post some pics of it. Maybe you can tell me more about it.

[IMG]http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad358/Hardscrabble_1/100_5884.jpg[/

That looks like a very nice example of a screw-grip Webly & Scott marketed by Army & Navy C. S. L.

The one I used to own never looked that nice. The case colors and engraving look really good. How are the barrels?

Im going to get some pics of the watertable and barrel flats tomorrow. He says that the barrels are very good but have small pits just past the chambers but the rest of the barrels are like mirrors. Any idea what it would be worth?

ilikedoubles, that gun has been up for sale on the Gunnutz website for several years. It has been restored to some degree. While it looks nice, I have not seen any information that would confirm actual condition i.e work done to gun, barrel wall thickness etc.

As the owner of an un-restored, higher grade (more and finer engraving etc) Army & Navy Webley Screw Grip I had felt in the past his asking price was significantly high. Don't know what it is now but over several years I hadn't seen it change and it was approx triple what I paid for mine. BTW, I bough mine from a very knowledgeable seller who is a member both here and on Gunnutz.

If you want to buy a high condition Birmingham boxlock, I know where there is a new and unfired Westley Richards with gorgeous wood, 100% engraving coverage and a makers case with all the fixin's. Gun was made in 1980 and has never been fired. Barely ever been out of it's case.

Gents, can I please point out that Webley called it a " grip nut", The Jones under lever was normaly refered to as a "screw grip" and thus there is often confusion .

"grip nut" eh? Thank you for that. I always wondered how the "screw-grip" moniker came to be applied to the dolls-head 3rd bite. It makes far-more sense with the Jones.

It is now at $3000.00 which I think is still a tad high to achieve in Canada. But if the OP is willing to buy then I guess the price can be achieved.

Gunman, thank you for the correction. I'll use grip nut from now on as long as no one tries to grip mine. It just sounds painful.

I thought the proper technical name for the Jones patent action was "lever over-guard."

Does a grip nut require one hand or two??

Brian, next fall I'll come to Winnipeg and we'll get both our grip nut guns out and find out. I'm hoping it's two because I don't want either of us to have any options.

Good one!!

$3K for a decently refreshed W&S "grip-nut" gun doesn't seem overly excessive (plain ones go for $2K easily) but....only if the barrels can be measured and confirmed to be well-over 20 thou (preferably over 25 thou). It should have a decent choke selection as well (at least have some choke to work with). If it's being offered with pits still in-place, it throws up a red-flag for me. When they "re-did" the gun, why didn't they also hone out the tubes to complete the restoration? Possibly because it had already been honed to the point of excessively thin tubes?

When you're buying an old English gun, you're buying the tubes. Make sure you know what you're getting. Nice light guns are useless if they aren't safe to shoot.

Truer words have never been spoken regarding the purchase of a vintage gun. One of the cheapest expenditures a collector/shooter can make is to acquire good wall thickness and bore diameter gauges.

ilikedoubles, thanks for those pictures. I didn't know there was anything as elegant as an A&N. I compared it to mine, which the letter said was sold for six pounds, six shillings to a Mr. So-and-So in 1913. Great original condition, IC/IM, it's one of my favourite duck guns (meaning I can hit with it).

(Just noticed I lost a star since yesterday's Misfire. That'll teach me not to put my nose in there!)

Hahaha! King, I lost one too over the last couple months. Don't know who I may have annoyed more , the right with my calls for civility or the left because they don't think clearly and like to tell others what to do. Oh well. I never really understood how I got to three in the first place. I have little to contribute from a technical standpoint or from the direction of research. About all I can do with my guns is shoot them and even then not that well.

"I have little to contribute from a technical standpoint or from the direction of research. About all I can do with my guns is shoot them and even then not that well."

We're in the same boat. You made my day! Thanks.