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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,102 Likes: 380
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,102 Likes: 380 |
 Not to hijack the thread, but wanted to get some thoughts on the paring of the datecode & pre-1924 bore(post was in an Omega, horseshoe, or whatever it is). Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 187 Likes: 33
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 187 Likes: 33 |
Raimey,
It could not have been more than one or two words that were obliterated. The only letter I could make out is a capital "E", which appears to be the next-to-last letter, given the length of the scratches and the size of the letter. That doesn't give us much more to go on. It does bring in to play such words as steel, acier and Kruppen, but with no way to verify unless someone recognizes the crossed cannon trade mark.
----MattH
President, Ga. Vintagers
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,102 Likes: 380
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,102 Likes: 380 |
Well, with that I would make a stab at Fluss Stahl Krupp Essen or Fluid Steel Krupp Essen. Since the term Trade Mark is used, it would seem to pair with Fluid Steel Krupp Essen, but it is still highly possible that the phrase is Fluss Stahl Krupp Essen. Even with one letter, the crossed cannons, scratching, etc. I think someone wanted to mask the tube steel source for some reason. Since the crossed cannons are on both tubes and hold the position of the tube steel type, I really can't see any other relationship but steel; therefore, Krupp steel.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
...It seems that tubes wearing an encircled LB, or LB in an oval, are quite common in the 1920s. Maybe PeteM can comment, but it seems odd that there is a date stamp but also the bore in a rhombus? Anyway, so it is possible that the Lhermitte & Bruyninckx concern switch to sporting weapons, or in tandem, with their fishing components... L&B was around in 1914. How long they stayed in business, I have no info. As for the date code, I can only guess that at some point the gun was reproofed. Golcher started out selling guns and eventually moved into fishing gear. So it was a rather common pattern. Pete
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,102 Likes: 380
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,102 Likes: 380 |
 Paul Schraff peddled example.  Jan Jakub Sosnowski Warsaw(La Maison J. Sosnowski Varsovie - made by Guillaume Defourny-Sevrin Liege Fait Pour) example - "Robert Ziegler & Czeslaw Lisowski were at the very least crossing sourcing if not best of friends or related. Czeslaw Lisowski was born in the mid to late 1870s(1876?) and died in 1938 in Warsaw. Some time after WWI he was co-owner of J. Sosnowski, which was founded by Jan Jakub Sosnowski, mistrz rusznikarski - master gunsmith & possibly head of the guild at some point, was born in 1827 in Swisloczu and died in Warsaw in 1905. He partnered with Jan Jachimek(circa 1818 in Prague to 1883 Warsaw) under the shingle Jachimek & Sosnowski. Jan Jachimek had been a partner in Koczi & Jachimek with Antoni Koczi(Kotzi). Getting back to J. Sosnowski, he had a son named Bronislaw Sosnowski who was born in 1863 in Warsaw and died in 1942." Info: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post299071Was it ever determined to whom the Crossed Cannons Trademark might be attributed(L-C??)? I can't recall. I believe the chicken scratching to be covering" "Made of Best" over "Laminated Steel". Cheers, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,102 Likes: 380
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,102 Likes: 380 |
 Or moreover it just may be "Made of Best" over "Crucible Steel" as see on the G. Defourny-Sevrin of Liege. The "Laminated Steel" stamp might be a stamp in error. Cheers, Raimey rse
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,531 Likes: 20
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,531 Likes: 20 |
I owned a .405 Winchester double rifle with Paul Schraff's name on it some time back. It was a painful rifle to shoot - 7-1/2 pounds is not enough weight to soak up the recoil of a 300 grain bullet at 2200 feet per second. Last I knew of it, it was accompanying a salmon fishing guide in Alaska where the need for a light, handy rifle of significant power to keep the unfriendly fishermen wearing permanent fur coats from eating the customers made the recoil acceptable.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4 |
Hello All, I have a 20ga. Belgian gun from another unknown maker or seller. The only clear identifier is this legend stamped on the top of the barrels: Paul Schraff Armurier Bruxelles. I have been unable to find the name Paul Schraff anywhere so far, either online (including searching this board -- there was one old reference to a D. Schraff gun) or in any books/catalogs that I've been able to put my hands on. I'm not sure if he was actually a maker, or simply a reseller. Given the broad knowledge on this board, I thought I'd see if anyone here has run across the name before. I'll post some pictures below. What you'll see is what appears to be Francotte action. Looks like their typical Knock-About. The gun has the usual Belgian proof marks and a date code for 1930. Serial number is 8455. There is a mark on either barrel that is a pair of crossed cannons surrounded by the works "Trade Mark". I'm sure I've seen this mark somewhere before, but can't remember if it is a barrel maker or maybe a gun maker's mark. Thank you all for any help.    I do not know who Paul Schraff, but I will share my observations from what I can see. The quality of metal polishing in places not normally seen when the gun is assembled is very nice. Attention to detail and finish in hidden places is how we distinguish good from mediocre or bad. I would rate this equal to Ithaca NID or A.H. Fox Grade A.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 236 Likes: 58
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 236 Likes: 58 |
Your shotgun is manufactured in 1930 by G J Defourny-Sevrin for Paul Schraff, Belgian "fabricant" of fire arms (Bruxelles, rue Royale,17 and Arlon, Grand Rue,57). Barrels of Lhermitte-Bruyninckx www.shotguncollector.com
Last edited by Robertovich; 12/01/16 06:05 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 307 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 307 Likes: 4 |
Robertovitch, you are correct, the gunshop from Paul Schraff was taken over by Paul Binet till now.
Marc.
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