doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com So I found this old Cape gun/target pictures now

Sharps,
There is an article in WAIDMANNSHEIL, a couple issues ago, about "generic" 11mm cartridges.It describes 3 different ways to make 43 mauser cases, which are pretty expensive now. The best overall used 45-90 cases with the rim pushed forward to make the "A"base. Inyour case, use 45-70 which will be even cheaper.M-4s advice is right on, except you will have to size it down to 41 some way.If you have or can borrow 40-65 dies, they would make a good start. Now that I think about it,40-65 cases should be pretty avaliable now that it is used a good bit in BP Silhouette shooting.You might shorten 40-65 dies and use them for loading.
Mike.

Mike, thinking you are meaning 50-90 sharps cases as I have used them for these odd A -base cases.

m-4

Here is the same link I posted earlier. Truth be known, these pictures are better than any I can take.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=293576924

Sooo....how do I push the shoulder back on the 43 Mauser brass? I have 50 of those and would be willing to sacrifice a few to get a case.

Anneal your 43 Mauser brass by heating evenly with a propane torch (I use a cordless drill with a rod loosely in the case to heat evenly) when an even orange drop them into a bucket of water) then I would work the shoulder back in stages such as .50-.45-.41 using whatever dies I had available then trim to length until I could get it to chamber. Then fire form to the chamber will probally only need to necksize when reloading after fireforming later anyway. Then you will start having to determine what needs to be done (maybe reaming neck I.D.) to fit the size of your chosen bullet.

m-4

You're using straight walled dies to push the shoulder back, correct? As in 45 Colt, 44 Spl., 41 mag., going down like that? Only rifle dies of course....well,pistol dies might work, no? Hmmmm...I have a set of 40-70 Sharps Straight dies....but I bet they're too small in diameter.

Seems I better measure my 43 Mauser brass too.

Either one, depends on availablity. Just need to get the shoulder back to chamber, then a small bit of fast pistol powder and push the neck into a bar of soap to seal or use a lead bullet & fireform to the chamber. You just have to play around. I have a lathe and some old dies that I always end up cutting on but there are always many ways to skin a cat!

m-4

M-4
No, I meant 45-90,50-90 would be used for the larger "A"base cases,like 11.15x58 Werndl M77 or 11x59Rmm French Gras. The 45-70,45-90,40-65 usually measure .500-.505 at the base.The "book" says 43 Mauser is .516, but the ones I measured are around .510 instead. I think the .516 came from chamber measurement.The cartridge has to be smaller than the chamber. Using either measurement, the 45-70etc is within the accepted .015 difference. Turning the rim to fit the rim recess makes it expand uniformaly in fireforming.

Sharps,
If you are willing to sacfifice your 43 Mauser cases,you have that problem solved.The question of how to push the shoulders back, depends on what dies you have avaliable or can borrow. If you own the dies, they can be pretty easily shortened, but you need a lathe( or a friend with one). If all else fails you can make a die to set the shoulder back. Since few cases will be needed, you don't need to harden them, and since they will be fireformed,shoulder angle doesn't matter. You only have to get it small enough to go into the chamber, fireforming takes care if the rest. Your 40-70 Sharps dies might work for one "stage", but are way too small at the base. This just proves what I always say," a lathe is a life necessity".
Mike

Fireforming I'm familiar with and have done it so that isn't any problem. I do think I am going to have to trim the cases first because the 43 is about 1/2 in. longer. That shouldn't present any problems and I THINK my pistol dies will work once the case is shortened. I also think I can use my 40-70 dies to take it down to 40 then fireforming should bring it back out. 10 grs. of Unique should work for forming, yes? Too much, not enough? I may have to thin the necks, I just don't know yet....I'll be more surprised if I don't. My guess on bullet weight is no more than about 300 grains with 275 seeming optimum. Barnes mentioned 260-300 for the 10.5 X 47R. I'm wondering what the case capacity will end up being....around 60 grains if I'm lucky? I hope not much less.

Here are a couple things I've kinda ran into. The rim diameter of my 43 brass is a bit smaller, about .010, so I took the barrels off and slid the rim into the recess and it felt pretty darn good to me. Opinion on whether that will be ok? The same difference exists in the head, near .010. Obviously these will be low pressur, BP rounds and I think that will be ok also. Yes, no?

I've got a handle on the rifle. Now, what about the smoothbore? Or, what the heck do you call a smoothbore with straight rifling in it? (the more I look down that bore the more I grin) The Germans have to have some cool word for that!!! A 16 ga. hull fits fine. I understand the shortening of the case, the wad column, if such it can be called, and Seyfried always mentioned 3-4 drams for a 16 bore and round ball. What I have no clue about, even though I've read it a hundred times, is how in Sam Hill do I crimp the hull over the ball? I've read several methods and some kind of tool that fits in a drill, for turning a crimp on plastic cases, but what about brass cases? Is there a crimping die for that? Reckon I gotta come up with a 16 bore RB too. Oh this is getting to be FUN!!!

10 grns unique should work fine, smaller rim s/b fine, smaller base s/b fine. As far as the 16 bore I would be looking up Tinker here on the site & drop him a PM as well as Daryl and I bet they can tell you all you need to know. Might also be some info in Roger Lake's Paradox book.

m-4

Well gentlemen, I have two,very nicely formed cases that fit wonderfully! I cut the cases back not quite 1/2 in. and started with my 45-70 sizing die. It squeezed it down quite a bit. Then I went with 45 Colt then 44 Spl. I wondered what I was going to do after that but I needn't worry. That was the end of the sizing process! Both slipped nicely into the chamber. I trimmed the cases to 1.86, primed them and loaded with 10 grs. of Unique. A cap pistol is louder. I ended up at 23 grs. of Unique, newspaper on top and soap in the case mouth. Kind of a nice little crack, maybe a little more than a 22, and out slid a new 10.5 X 47R case....if that's what it is. Now for a bullet!

Edit: I forgot m-4, to thank you for the contacts on the 16 bore. And before I forget it, a sincere thank you to all of you who offered advice, suggestions and help. Tomorrow will be a little more casual and I'll take some pics and post them. Thanks again and don't be bashful about continuing to tell me what to do!!!!