doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com So I found this old Cape gun/target pictures now

Sharps,
You can tell a lot, before you make a chamber cast, by measuring the diameter of the chamber at the head, and the depth of the rim recess.The groove diameter will make cast bullets pretty easy.Don't be disappointed,this is great-a new challenge.
Mike

Sharps,

The gun sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun. I especially got a kick out of hearing that you have straight rifling in the 16 tube. I'm looking forward to seeing the rifle case dimensions.

Buchseman

Another mystery unfolding

Oh, I am not in the least disappointed or frustrated. Quite excited actually. Today, compared to when I first started working with old and obsolete cartridges, there is a wealth of information and knowledge from which to draw. I am grateful for it too! In addition, there are so many guys out there who are making available odd size and style molds, sizing dies, custom made reloading dies....and you can actually find those guys!! Those I've dealt with have been first class and I think their products are a bargain.

I couldn't agree with all of you more, this one is gonna be a hoot.

The rifle side I'm fairly knowledgable about, as far as getting dimensions and such....the smooth side, not as much. How do I check to see if it is a 2 1/2 chamber? I cannot believe it is anything else but it must be checked.

Der Ami, I'm heading to the shop to make a chamber cast as soon as I post this.

Well, I did a couple quick checks as Der menitoned before starting the chamber cast. Best I can measure rim thickness is 3/32, (all Have is an engineers scale for that), and case head is .516 and rim diameter is .580-.581.

And Raimey, yes, I can see a 9.3 X 72 of some variety in my future.

Sounds like it is built from A-base brass (aka.. 43 Mauser). Curious to see the rest of the chamber measurement? I might have dies that will fit as this is starting to sound like the one in my cape gun. Take a card & flex it into a circle & insert into the chamber on the 16 side & slide down until it bottoms at the shoulder & mark it. Slide it out & measure for chamber depth.

m-4

Ok, got 'em. The only one I'm not certain of is the shoulder diameter. From where is that dimension taken?

All measurements are as close as I could get them. I think they're pretty close.

Rim thickness - .095 - .1
Rim dia. - .595
Head - .518
shoulder, just where it breaks from the body - .495 - .5
neck - .448 - .450
OAL - 1.865

From the only source I have, Cartridges of the World, it appears might be a 10.5 X 47R

Thanks m-4, on my way to do that.

Couple more dimensions. Twist is 1- 22 1/2 and 16 bore chamber, as per m-4, bottoms at 2 5/8 so I assume 2 1/2 brass or paper case. There's some erosion in front of the 16 bore chamber.

I thought the groove dia. was .438? That might make it a 11.15x47R listed in Dixons book pg 32. Listed by Stahl,RWS/UTENDOERFFER AND Lorenz (case#24)

m-4

No, the bore dia is .395, groove dia. is .415-.416 now that I have a good casting in front of the throat. Sure looks like a short 43 Mauser, kinda along that line anyway.

10.5x47R sounds like it might be it then. Might try a 43 mauser case & trim to length , anneal then push the shoulder back & neck size with a 41 mag die until it chambers & fireform to fit? Interesting on the 16 bore side, that is about standard BP twist rate. When are we going to get to see some pic's?

m-4