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Forums10
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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 16
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 16 |
Have another gun from Karl Sohms collection. Raimey is going to post pics today I believe. It is a Suhl gun I believe made by F.W. Kessler and name on barrel is C. Guntermann, Dusseldorf. It is a 16ga over 7.7x57. Nitro stamped. Nice gunstock with normal use marks. Also has a Redfield 2 1/2x scope mounted. Raimey may add comments.
Take a look when the pics are up and see if you can add anything.
Thanks for everyones help here.
Harm
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,083 Likes: 380
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,083 Likes: 380 |
 Has the pin or scear configuration of a Kerner action.  Looks to be Keßler's serial number range but many times the concern put a K preceding the number. Also the mechanic TW, frame filer, looks to have been a staple for sourcing by Keßler. Now he could have been an employee or a subcontractor.   Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,083 Likes: 380
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,083 Likes: 380 |
And my favorite images, the marks:  Chased the forge/mechanic using the K in a rhombus for some time. Probably responsible for the tubeset knitting also. F.W. Keßler's ledger might provide some insight.   Harm, can you pleasure us with an image of the standing breech where there may be a Keßler monogram between the firing pins? Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,083 Likes: 380
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,083 Likes: 380 |
Doesn't have a monogram, but thanks for the effort.  Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 641 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 641 Likes: 2 |
Can you tell how the Redfield base was mated to the claw mount bases? It looks like a workable solution to the universal problem of pre-WW II German rifles winding up separated from their scopes, whether intentionally or by accident.
It appears that the basic weapon still retains its originality, while being put in a useable condition at a modest price.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 6 |
Three generations of Guntermanns, Carl ca 1850, F. mentioned 1865 to 1915 and another Carl, first mentioned 1906, bankrupt in 1931, are known as country gunmakers/-dealers in Düsseldorf.
"7.7mm" is the bore diameter of the barrel, ok for the 8x57IR (.318" bullet). This is confirmed by the mark "Mod.88.8". "Modell 88 /8mm" was an old designation for the 8x57IR. It went out of use in the 1920s.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,083 Likes: 380
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,083 Likes: 380 |
Most interesting on the Modell 88/8mm stamp there Axel. I was curious when the stamp saw its last use. And was the 15 gram bullet more common for the IR, IRS or both? Harm: What might the ET in the image below be a part of as I can't seem to sort it out other than a set of initials?  Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 627 Likes: 47
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 627 Likes: 47 |
What a gorgeous firearm, again.
You guys are amazing. I learn as much here as I do on a classic bamboo fly rod site I visit. As with there, thank you gentlemen for being so willing to share your knowledge.
NRA Benefactor 2008
NRA Patron 2007
NRA Endowment 1996
NRA Life 1988
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,083 Likes: 380
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,083 Likes: 380 |
  I've seen a B in this location many times, but P, hum he must have had some forend hanger components. Difficult to say on the mechanic doing the tube/tubeset knitting. Maybe a Terling, Thom, Triebel? Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 6 |
I've seen a B in this location many times, but P, hum he must have had some forend hanger components.
I don't see a P here, but an incompletely stamped B applied with a flat stamp leaning to the top left on a round surface.
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