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Forums10
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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,281 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,281 Likes: 12 |
at last!! the real hyperbole - more like hyperbolic BS -
" If you study the geometry of those guns, you will understand why they hold a pattern longer. A shotgun barrel is like a violin... it has an optimum harmonic. When shot is consticted slowly, it tends to stabilize the pattern. Modern barrels are pipes with washers on the end. Also, using high power loads tends to blow the pattern instead of tightening it. Light loads produce tighter patterns. "
It just totally baffles me as to how this magic, tho well known seemingly to 'smiths of yore, has been lost to/on modern barrel makers?!?!?!?!? I mean OMG!! just think what that would mean to sales!!! With 21stCentury marketing that could mean hundreds of $. And the barrel boring guys - WOW!!! And Digweed and those current fools at Perazzi could REALLY write some records!!
Well, that's today's allocation of exclamation marks.
have a day
Dr.WtS
Dr.WtS
Mysteries of the Cosmos Unlocked
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 765 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 765 Likes: 2 |
Wonko The Sane--you are on the wrong thread...this one has gone insane in regards to long range hoopla...BTW green dot is not a slow powder.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,449 Likes: 278
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,449 Likes: 278 |
Steve White, thanks for stating that Green Dot is not a slow powder. Of course, as I previously stated, Green Dot is no powder for the use the poster intended it for.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,449 Likes: 278
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,449 Likes: 278 |
Wonko, you came to our rescue. Not only are the implications of wierd choke configurations a fallacy (a politically correct term for bullshit), but we have measured enough Lefever bores to find that the "tapered bore" story is bogus. We have found a few "tapered bores" out there, but none of them seem to come from the factories. Lefever made "tapered chokes" and the tapered bore thing is a matter of misunderstood rhetoric. Please correct me if I am wrong. By the way, this is a great thread, as some posters have mentioned.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,449 Likes: 278
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,449 Likes: 278 |
Wonko, by the way, the poster who said that shotgun chokes are like violins also recommended 75 grains of Green Dot as a starting point for a 1 3/8 ounce load, and mentioned the "Old Wive's Tale" that people ordered Purdey shotguns and sent them to Ithaca for boring. Thank you for bringing us back to sanity, if we really are back.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393 |
I regularly pass-shoot pigeons at 120 yards with my .410. I have to use 6s though as 7-1/2s run out of velocity at 100 yards. Lead is two yellow school buses.
Best,
Mike I'll buy this> I once saw a video where some fat Limey was dropping crows and ravens at close to 140 yards with a 12 gauge. They had a range finder so I am sure it was legit- Interesting form of crow shooting (one of my passions)- and I also love pass shooting waterfowl (but NOT when the area school buses are moving on the rural roads that boarder the river I haunt in Nov)--However- long range tight choked shotguns, in the right hands, can bring down birds at long ranges-- Now as to the Limey- recalling the late Nash Buckingham's story "The Dove" he relates where a Limey with his Bestes London made double was invited to a Southern dove shoot- limit of 25 birds- and was placed on a windy hill, with the traditional Limey arse-resting shooting stick and 100 shells- he ran out of ammo and had 18 dead doves- Try May-Jumne dense foilage- the hawk attacking nesting birds call on a Johnny Stewart electronic caller, CQC with a full choke shotgun-- entirely different ball (or cricket old chap) game indeed..
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393 |
What the heck? I never posted this piece of crap, George Digweed is one of the worlds greatest shots of all time in my book.
Looking back it was Run with the Fox who wrote this seemingly in a drunken stupour.
Mike
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,759 Likes: 462
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,759 Likes: 462 |
It appears that these BS Old Tales originated with.... gun writers and Lefever  A 1909 Ad for "Lefever Taper Bore Barrels" http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1909/VOL_53_NO_07/SL5307021.pdf And the "Shotgun Review" in the August 1912 Hunter-Trader-Trapper http://books.google.com/books?id=Uy7OAAA...gun&f=false Scroll down to the page 75 and click for the article. "They are claimed to have barrels of special bore with choke commencing at the breech and extending to the muzzle" with "five different styles of bore" Ya' mean we can't believe everything we read...even before the internet?!? 
Last edited by Drew Hause; 05/04/12 04:39 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,457 Likes: 336
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,457 Likes: 336 |
We've talked about the non existance of the Lefever "Tapered Bore"in other threads. I published the bore measurements of two guns off of my wall that did have bores tapering from the breech to the muzzle. One was a D M Lefever crossbolt 5B and the other a D M Lefever crossbolt Optimus. Many years ago, when I was "smarter", I turned down a sideplate Optimus because of the same funny bores. Here's the 5B measurements with measurements taken at 2" intervals from the muzzle. 
Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 05/03/12 06:21 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
EVERYONE Do Please note, I ABSOLUTELY DID ""NOT"" recommend anyone load shells from the 1950 Lyman data. In fact if you go back & read my post I ""Cautioned"" those loads were put up in paper shells, with card & filler wadding, not present day components.
As to the 2 3/4 drams of Green Dot this was someone elses post, but it does seem that today as it was in early smokeless days, people do not fully understand the difference between Drams & Drams Equivelent. The DE is a given amount of a smokeless powder to give similar balistics to that many drams of Black Powder & has no reference to its actual weight or volume.
I have not looked up any current data on this, but in the not very distant past & with most components still available Alliant did list a few Green Dot loads for 1Ľ oz of shot at what would have been about a 2 3/4 "Dram Equivelent". These were low velocity loads giving around 1100 FPS at normal pressures. The American Rifleman ran an article on low velocitie loads some years back primarily for a 1˝oz load with Unique powder at around this same 1100 FPS velocity. It was developed & pressure tested by then Hercules powder Co & done for both card & filler or Remington Power Piston wadding. This was while lead shot was still legal for waterfowl & I successfully used a good many of these loads. They were basically classified as a 3"DE"-˝oz load, charge as I recall was 23grains Unique (But don't load this unless you can find Data). To my knowledge even though these were worked up & certified by Hercules they never placed them in their Handloaders Guides.
The question I was answering of course was "What did they shoot Back Then". Obviously if you load up in compression formed cases with special long range plastic shot cups you are not going to be duplicating what folks such as Nash Buckingham etc shot. I could go even further back & list loads from a 1913 LAC catalog & they would literally scare the socks off you with todays components.
Incidently in his writngs Nash stated that using the 1 3/8oz #4 Lubaloy 3" SX load from Bo Whoop #1 he could consistently kill Ducks or Geese to 60yds. He further stated he could "Scratch" them down to 70 yds, but only if he were hungry & accompanied by a very good retreiver.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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