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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 112
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 112 |
Sidelock + KRUPP + "Knock About" + Dolls Head = Sauer
Boxlock + "Knockabout" = Francotte (I have yet to see a Fran with KRUPP bbls)
Cameron...I am collecting serial numbers on the Sauer Knock Abouts for my on-going Sauer research. If you could please make note of this ones and relay it to me I would be very grateful. Please send to sauercollector@hotmail.com
Danke and best regards, Jeff
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Jeff;
I can't recall if you have mine or not. I will re-submit to be sure. What info do you want other than the SN.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 997 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 997 Likes: 7 |
I'll get the SN recorded and forward it to you Jeff!
Cameron Hughes
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 329
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 329 |
Griffin & Howe has and is now making available the VL&D records.
Rob
NRA Benefactor Member
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,455 Likes: 278
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,455 Likes: 278 |
The last I heard, a letter of provenance from Griffin and Howe is going to be an expensive item. Does anyone have further info?
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 997 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 997 Likes: 7 |
I guess I could have saved some of you guys' time if I had spent more time looking the gun over the other day!
Here's the information Julia sent me:
VonLengerke and Detmold on one sideplate
J.P Sauer&Son Maker and Patentee on the other side plate
On both barrels-Krupp-Steel, Germany
The "Knock-About Gun on the left barrel
VonLengerke and Detmold on the right barrel
Any ideas on the value of this gun? She's not selling it, I'd just like to pass some information along to her.
Thanks for all your responses and input
Cameron Hughes
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 416
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 416 |
I've been trying to get some letters from Bob Beach since 9/05 - was told they'd run $75/letter.
Last response was 4/06, when he confirmed some general info for several guns on the serial # list I provided him.
I've heard nothing else since.
Always looking for small bore Francotte SxS shotguns.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,455 Likes: 278
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,455 Likes: 278 |
If it were a legitimate attempt to assist the gun owner with provenance, the price would be reasonable, the service would be advertised on the website, and the results would be quicker in coming. I will order letters on my VL&D and A&F guns when Griffin and Howe actually makes the service public on the website.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 302
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 302 |
Mr. Beach had access to original VL&D records after 1924 and was offering documentation on Griffin & Howe letterhead with corporate seal for $75. The letter I received last March documenting my Francotte 20ga. ser. No. 82XXX was very specific.
Unfortunately, the letter did not describe my gun, but rather a lower grade Francotte with different specifications even though the serial number was noted as being the same. Consequently, the accuracy of the records was called into question and Mr. Beach graciously provided an immediate refund and apology for the mix up.
Perhaps it's to be expected that hand written records from the 1920's may contain inaccuracies if the log in process was a little lax. Sorry, I don't know the current status of this service.
"I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it" - Capt. Woodrow Call
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,455 Likes: 278
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,455 Likes: 278 |
I have seen examples of the records, many are actually separated by brand of gun. I have two wonderful Francottes, like Sharpsrifle's 20, in the 80,000 series, early twenties, I think. Sharpsrifle, did your letter include the name and possibly location of the original customer? I wouldn't pay $75.00 to have someone tell me my gun has 28" barrels but I would be interested in the original purchaser's identity.
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