doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Soft primers?

I've had a couple guns that had were hard openers with my reloads over the years. I had always used Win209's. A bit of wear and slack in the cocking linkage helps aggrivate the situation along with the softer primer.

I tried some Cheddite primers and the problem disappeared. They seem very hard though, as I now get an occasional light strike in a couple of other guns.
Neither are SxS's, both elderly pumps w/ 2 piece firing pins.
They always fire the second time. Pre-enjoyed shells,,how nice.

Guess I should just take the time and fix the first two.

Winchester 209's are getting pricey.
Might try Fiocchi or NobleSport next.

Cheddite might be a foreign made primer that used to be of the slightly larger size but is now made to US 209 specs.
Seems as if I read that somewhere. Probably on the Web,,so it must be true.
I know I bought some many years ago but returned them for Winchesters after learning that they were (at that time) slightly larger in diameter than standard 209.
Didn't want to ruin my precious compression formed AA's.

Kutter:
As I'm sure you know, all manufactured goods vary a bit in specs from one "lot" to another. Generally, this variance is not important. It's just the price we pay for getting zillions of something at a cheap price.

However, I just measured some Fiocchi 209 primers v. some Winchester 209s in my shop. The Fiocchis came out to .249 wide just under the flange. The Winchesters came out to .249 just under the flange. No hull in the world would know the difference.

I will admit that Winchesters have a stepped construction with a smaller cup diameter toward the flash hole. But this is undoubtedly for "feed" purposes during automated insertion in ammunition manufacture.

Finally, I've reloaded Fiocchi primed/fired cases with Winchester primers again, and nothing falls out. Win 209s fit fine.

Perhaps Fioccchi at least has refined their specs to match Winchester -- or I have an oddly compliant bunch of imported primers.

These readings were taken a few years ago and it could be possible they have changed by now.

Primers

Federal 209A .239-.242 dia.

CCI 209 .240-.242

Rem. 209P .241-.242

Cheddite 209 .240-.243 stepped, most consistent in size

Win. 209 .240-243 stepped

Fiocchi 616 .243-.244 *

Rio type 209/G600 .244 *

Nobelsport type 209/686 .243-.244*

* measurements taken by someone else

Just measured my Fiocci 616, (209 type) at .244" under the flange.
I have been through all this before, on this board. MY 616 Fiocci primers are greater in diameter than MY Win 209s.
And that is that. Maybe Fiocchi have made them smaller since I acquire mine, I don't know and I don't care.
Mike

OK, measured my Win 209s and the diameter under the flange is .242"
FWIW,
Mike

Fiocchis are shorter. I had a decapping pin that wouldn't punch them out half the time.

Cheddites are soft, very soft and thin. They perforate in Brownings. They are also sensitive compared to others, as are Federal pistol primers. Extra care is needed when loading Cheddite. Only brand I've ever had fire in the loaders. Once was enough.

I've never bought and/or reloaded Fiocchi primers and therefore have no issue with them being larger or smaller in diameter than Win209's.

I might if the price is right though!



I had been told or heard some years ago that Cheddites were larger in dia than US 209 standards and would negate the use of US mfg primers in previously Cheddite primed hulls as being too loose.


I stayed away from the Cheddites and other Euro primers for all that time till the price drew me in.
Plus I was told the size difference was not an issue anymore and that they were now mfg'd to US 209 specs.

I really didn't care about the size differance anymore if the primers worked OK. Plenty of empty hulls,,trash bags and boxes of them.
I've found I can reload w/ US 209 dia primers after using Cheddites,,not that I really care.

As I said, the Cheddites cured the hard opening in a couple of SxS's,,plus the lite strikes in pumps makes me think they are a harder cup material.

I've read were some feel they're soft,, and have had pierced primers in some O/U's..

Things change. Material suppliers change along with QC and the day of the week of production.

Some things we just have little control over.
Good thing we still have a wide choice..