doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Von Lengerke &Detmold

Greg,
That would be great! I may be able to give Julia some information about her father's gun. Obviously, neither she nor her father know much about the gun and it's worth. Specifically, that it's worth a little more than the leather soft case she carries it in.

Thanks guys for all your responses, and I'll report back with any further information I gather.

The Von Lengerke and Detmold company became Abercrombe and Fitch. They sold many fine firearms around the turn of the century including Francotte doubles. Annie (Oakley) Butler shopped for her Lancaster and Francotte shotguns at VL&D. Feel priviledged if you get a chance to shoot this fine gun.

Jason Buist

Jason:

I might be wrong, but I believe that Abercrombie and Fitch, who had been around since the 1890's, BOUGHT VL and D in 1929 or 1930.

The gun may very well be a Francotte and yes, I will bet dollars to doughniuts that it is worth more than the case, and that even if plain, its a nice gun.

I will bid TWO cases.

I hope to hear more about this. Pics would be nice.

Regards

GKT

Since it's a sidelock, my money's on it being the Sauer.

Agree with 2-Piper. I think the Francotte Knockabout--which I don't believe ever existed as a SL gun, absent evidence to the contrary--replaced the Sauer Knockabouts (which were SL's) that VL&D imported earlier. Expect it had to do with offering a Knockabout at a lower price--much as A&F eventually replaced the Francotte Knockabout with the Zoli-Rizzini, in the 60's, as their "Knockabout" gun.

This is not likely to be a very satisfactory trap gun. Trap is usually best shot with a more or less purpose built gun. Be sure the lady understands that not all guns perform all tasks well. She might get frustrated shooting trap with the gun and sell it way too cheap as just an old gun. Take a careful look and see if you can determine the gun's suitability for this lady to shoot trap with. If it is in the 6# region, she will need really light loads, most likely.

I too believe it's a Sauer since the Knock About Francotte's I've seen have all been box locks...but who cares, if it's a Sauer it's a fine gun. And if you consider the price points quoted as new (circa 1920's/30's?) it wouldn't be considered inexpensive even by today's standards. Definitely worth a bit of research.
Noticed your team is shooting trap. Since many of these doubles were built for upland game birds, and considering the number of rounds your team may shoot in a day of trap, she may not find the SxS design and lightweight suitable or comfortable. Get her set up with a dedicated trap gun designed for the sport and keep this utilitarian classic for game birds.

Gents - as far as I'm concerned, the fact it's a sidelock simply kills any chance of it being a Francotte.

Cameron, please let us know what the barrel flats and watertable have on them after you've seen it again.

I agree it sounds like the early Knockabouts were not the later Francotte boxlocks.


If someone is willing to post the page from the catalog here, let me know and I will email it to you.

I talked with Julia a short while ago. She said that she would go home this evening and write down any markings and inscriptions she can find on the gun and let me know tomorrow. She also said that next time we shoot, she'll bring the gun along for further inspection.

I'll post what I can asap.