doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Tubes for a vintage SxS?

Seeing all of the discussion about sleeving made me wonder. I hate to be a rube, but wanted to get opinions before I did anything else that is frowned upon in the community. I like shooting vintage doubles because of the craftsmanship, look and feel, all of the handwork and skill involved takes me back to a bygone era.

I do not have the coffers to spend the big bucks on "best doubles" and see many beautiful guns with damascus barrels that seems to excellent buys for the money.

My question is two fold. First, can you install a set of Briley 20ga tubes into a damascus barrel. And two, is that looked upon as sacrilege?

I know that there a lot of variables here and that opinions are like birthdays, everyone has one, but I appreciate the opinions of the forum.

Forget sacrilege. The whole world is going crazy about what others may think. You like the old guns as I do. That's what counts. Sleeving of itself isn't sacrilege; it's more like being "born again" in many circumstances. Ditto tubes.

The answer to the first part of your question is, yes, full length tubes can be inserted into damascus barrels and I know this is a service Briley offers. The concept is generally referred to as Chamber Sleeving, and it generally requires a drop in one gauge - 10bore to 12bore, 12bore to 16bore, 16bore to 20bore, etc.

The second part of your question will be met with a wide berth of opinions. I think from a collector perspective, you'd be devaluing the gun. From a usability standpoint, you'd be making a, maybe, unshootable gun functional again, so that's a good thing. You have to factor in what the weight of the tubes does to the handling of the gun and such, but you could end up with a real pretty gun that's fully functional - and in the process, you'd save another piece of history. Not too much of a sacrilege in my book.

Well here is a gun already done. A Parker DH at Cabelas:

Gauge 12ga
Chamber 2 1/2"
Barrel 30" Damasccus
Choke IC & MOD
Weight 8lbs 2oz With The Tubes
Trigger Double Triggers
Stock Checkered Pistol Grip
Stock Dimensions 14" LOP 1 7/8" DAC 3 1/8" DAH No Cast
Fore End Checkered Splinter
Butt Skeleton
Metal Condition Good
Wood Condition Good
Bore Condition Good
Manufacture Date Circa 1896
Sights Front Bead
Extras With 20ga Tube tools.
Status available
Gun Library Scarborough, ME

Description: This D grade is built on a 1 1/2 frame and comes with 20ga Briley tubes with fixed choke at .010" and .016" constriction.


http://www.cabelas.com/product/Parker-D-...&Ntt=parker

I've looked into this also, and for 16ga guns, Briley does offer 28ga tubes, but not 20ga unfortunately.

Most doubles have short chambers. Briley's often wants to lengthen the chambers for 20 tubes. The metal gets very thin if you try to use 20 2 3/4" tubes in a 2 5/8 or 2 1/2" chamber. Do not alter the chambers just to shoot tubes. You make your barrels into a set of carrier barrels that will/may not be safe to shoot the original shells in anymore.

Purist will hate tubes. They will point out that the barrels get heavy. You add a whole 10-12 ounces. Worse you can get screw in choke tubes. Do not pay any attention to them. Either shoot what you like or not. It is your choice. It is supposed to be fun not some form of proper manners.

If just shooting clay targets look at a set of 28 ga. companion tubes. Now I contend that shooting 28 or even .410 tubes will make your gun into a fun double to shoot. Easy on the stock and well capable of breaking clay targets. I rather shoot a gun than just own it and be afraid to shoot it.

I found a old set of Briley Match weight tube in 28 and .410 and cut them down to 20". I guess the 20 had cracked as only one 20 tube was with the set. Backbored .008 and .016 chokes in them. They predated Companion tubes. I have shot them in many guns over the years. After the Companions came out I bought a set of them and use them instead.

Just picked up a old set of Parabaugh 28 and .410 with extractors for Browning Superposed. Fitting them to a pre-war Super with double triggers. Going to shoot skeet with them this weekend. It is all about making these old guns safe to shoot and more fun to play with. I do try to do it in a manner which does not alter the guns too much for the next owner.

So, basically a 20bore tipping the scale at over 8lbs. Yikes. This is what I was eluding to, when mentioning that you need to determine what it does to the 'feel' of the gun. Any idea what a gun like this would have weighed, as a 12bore and 20bore?

How about this option. Tailor the smokeless load to the gun. There are any number of tested reduced chamber pressure 10 gauge, 12 gauge and 16 gauge loads out there that are perfectly safe to shoot in damascus guns with good barrels (as determined by a competent gun smith familiar with vintage guns). In addition to the satisfaction of shooting vintage guns in their original configuration you gain the satisfaction of producing your own ammuntion. I use turn of the last century tools which has increased my shooting satisfaction and connection with the original shooters of my vintage guns.

No question, if the damascus barrels are considered good-to-go, shoot a nice light load ( I shoot RST light load (< 1oz.) and low velocity (1125 +/-)) and enjoy. My comments were based on the assumption that the damascus on a considered gun wasn't safe.

BTW - I'm sure it goes without saying, but Briley isn't the only game in town when it comes to tubes. Nothing against 'em, just know there are options.

Thanks for all of the help. So just to be straight, if the damascus barrels are tested and are solid then it is okay to shoot the low pressure, low velocity shells. If they are not then you can go the tube option if the weight and feel of the gun are not to be adversely effected.