doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help with Gunmaking Definition: "Hand-Made"

I'm not familiar with gun type manufacturing machines (milling, boring, etc) that can work to microns. The kind I'm familiar with work in the area of thousandths and ten-thousandths. Can you direct me to some information on this technology?

Chuck, among the newer technologies are plasma-etching and ion milling. They can remove atomic thicknesses. Some of these are used largely in making wafers but they are being used more and more in precision metal and even glass surfaces.

I have a conventional (non-CNC) small machine shop in my cellar and can work to thousandths readily and tenths with a lot of sweat (I'm an amateur machinist at best). Tenths are a breeze for CNC.

Take a look at the page for the Langthorn Hesketh O/U made in Britain.
http://www.longthorneguns.com/cgi-bin/scribe?showinfo=Try-Hesketh

It's a new maker and the guy has an ultraprecision manufacturing plant that makes other stuff that he is using to make these guns. I forgot which Italian maker it is but there's one that also does a completely machine-made gun and it goes for about 125K. Langthorn already has the machinery and the technicians to use them so he doesn't have to amortize their cost over a few guns. The horrific cost of this technology is what is making it difficult to apply to fine guns.

The new technologies can be applied to any metal items that are fabricated. Langthorn makes the barrels and receiver out of a single piece of steel. I would love to see one of these shotguns made. I don't own any O/Us and am very tempted to look seriously at one of these.

In the past machine-made guns were things like autos and pumps where tolerances were looser and military rifles with the same considerations.

We might be entering into a whole new world of fine shotguns that are truly machine-made and are as fine and sweet as the hand-worked classics.

I dunno.

G,
I have no doubt you are right about more and more machine tasks on our guns. I keep thinking production engraving will someday be done on a CNC/DNC machine that will replicate the original craftsman's work to the thousandth of an inch and every cut, perfect or imperfect.

Some of the movie industry technology where a dancer/actor wears a target populated suit and targets are tracked by a computer and recreate an animation, sounds like it could be used for graver position/angle and an instrumented graver could record each blow from the chase hammer. Imagine a fully programmed multi-axis machine with each graver angle and blow programmed and how fast it could run. Each production engraving could be an exact replica of the original.

Chuck:
At the risk of further perpetuating this already insanely too-long thread, your posit is dire indeed.
If a machine can replicate an engraving pattern by programming a graver, is the result real "engraving."??? I doubt it.

But , just as machines now create "chequering", is the product really chequering?

Or is it simply machine-made wood knurling? Worthless except for tractive grip?

The issue to me is "soul." Or more precisely, human hand. That which lacks it is simply utilitarian product for consumption.

KR,
The standard will continue to rise for the masses. Precision guns of yesteryear were for the elite. Precision guns today are for available to the masses. Fancy today will become standard tomorrow. But there will always be room for better or "best" of the day.

500 yrs ago, the most accurate portraits had to be painted by highly skilled artists. Today, the 7 yr old girl next door has a 10 megapixal digital camera that can pick up that nose hair you forgot to trim and a computer which can send the image to the other side of the world within a few minutes. You can go to a photo studio and a highschool degreed photo enthusiast with little artistic talent can take a portrait of you that rivals historical paintings. Still, wealthy people continue to seek portrait artists to paint them.

All 50 BMG Barrett guns are hand fitted. A tech works on a single gun, hand fitting the gun to completion.

I know long gun makers today whose only use of "automation" are auto hammers for the forge work. They build each gun completely from raw materials.

From the video I have seen of the Marlin factory in the 1920's there was tremendous amount of hand work required despite the automation.

Pete

I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my original question and for the answers that have helped clarify and codify (and even confuse me). Thanks for the answers and PMs. I've learned a lot -- and once again been reminded of choosing words carefully.

I'd rather have gun with soul and sweat of the brow any day Kensal, your opinions stated above get to th "heart" of the matter.

On a recent tour of the Holland and Holland factory, I got a chance to marvel at how they still make guns with quite a bit of hand finishing. A brief interview with the head machinist/programmer was interesting in that he had the ability to program the machines they have currently so that virtually no hand fitting needed to be done. Its commendable that H & H chooses to reign in this temptation and leave the craftsman the opportunity to have last stroke of the file, and keep the traditions intact. The gun wouldn't be a Holland and Holland in my mind if it weren't

I couldn't agree with Clif more. I place great value on 'hand-made'!!