doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CLUELESS: Otto Bock? Pre-War? Please help

Can I ask a general gun collecting question?

Is it better to leave things as-is? A simple clean-up? Or do some sort of restoration? To me, the gun is 'as my grandfather owned it' and I think that's really special. I like it this way. My dad does too. Just curious about the tendencies of collectors of this sort of rifle...

any comments?

If it were mine---I'm not a collector---I would keep it as it is. You are fortunate in owning a gun that's been in the family all these years.

If a gunsmith said it was in good condition, I'd buy some light loads, take the shotgun on a family outing, fire a shot to celebrate a great provenance.

Just think of it: "This is my grandfather's gun." "Ever shoot it? "Of course. It's been in the family for X years." You're a lucky guy!

It should be thoughtfully conserved. Rust destroyed, bores cleaned, checkering degunked, perhaps a light freshening of the stock, a new trigger bow crafted.

Well, if it ends up being a 9.3x74mm you'll have a mid priced gun, a practical and available round, but not worth half as much as if it were a big bore.

If the barrels aren't pitted your gun just went up fromm initial estimate by at least $1500 more.

You'll need a competent smith to do a chamber casting to confirm what cartridge it shoots.

I'm going to disagree with my friend King Brown here on this point. I believe a cleaning as outlined above will be a positive conservative step forward for this gun.
Jim

Someone upthread had mentioned "watertable" and I figured it would be a good idea to define that while I was at it.

To the owner: we've been mentioning "chopper lump tubeset". To clarify, there are several ways of making the barrels for double-barrelled guns, one of which is called "chopper lump". To keep it short and sweet, this process involves making the two individual barrels each from a single piece of steel. Each of these pieces of steel will have extra metal at the butt end of the piece, from which the manufacturer will later form the "lumps". The "lumps" are those blocky hooks of metal projecting from the middle-bottom of the barrel flats which lock into the bottom of the receiver. The individual barrel blanks are machined to shape (and bored) and the lumps on each are machined to shape - half of the lumps on each barrel. The two barrels are then joined together (usually by brazing) at the lumps and other work is done to join the barrels into a single unit. The name "chopper" comes from British English. The raw barrel blanks with the lumps look something like an axe, which is called a "chopper" in British. Thus the name.

Making double-barrelled guns of any caliber by the chopper lump method is time-consuming, requires a lot of fine craftsmanship and detail work and is therefore reserved for expensive, higher-end guns. Is it "better" than any other method? You'd have to define "better". It is surely more expensive and involves more fine craftsmanship.

And, FWIW, the "standing breech" is the flat face on the receiver with the holes for the firing pins and against which the back end of the barrels rests. It's perpendicular to the watertable.

The 9.3x74 cartridge is one which is still in production. It is quite powerful and used in big game rifles. IIRC, it is legal for elephant and cape buffalo in some countries. I would not, however, go out and buy a box to shoot through this gun. At least not just yet. (Setting aside that it'll cost $4 to $5 each time you pull the trigger and your local gun store is unlikely to carry it.) This gun needs to be carefully inspected by a gunsmith who knows about double rifles, detail cleaned, and the bores checked carefully. This gun will turn 100 later this year and deserves to be treated with care. It also needs a trigger guard.

Since it hasn't been fired in many years (no surprise - the ammunition is obscure) I would not be surprised if the hammer springs are shot and will have to be replaced. Being left cocked for 70 years will do that to even the best steel springs.

In the meantime, keep it in a warm, dry place. I'm sure someone here will be able to suggest a good gunsmith to do what's needed to be done.

Congratulations! You hit the lottery....

You know, an image of the standing breech just might reveal a monogram and point to a specific craftsmen. Which concern sourced all the work, difficult to say. Otto Bock would have placed an order with the larger concern in the area and then that concern either used in-house craftsmen or subed the work to the cottage like industry. But what can be said is that the effort on the sporting arm was drawn from the very talented pool of mechanics in the Zella Sankt Blassi or Mehlis area.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Dave in Maine:
Sorry if my "simplistic" explanation of this owners double gun offended your senses but my intent was to allow him to get his gun disassembled and posted in a way that wouldn't be intimidating to him.
I could have writen a similiar discourse to yours at that time but to what point?
Jim

Let me pause here and say this:
I am a member of many collector forums in other areas of collecting (bicycles, baseball cards, etc). As a brand new member, I have NEVER been treated with this amount of straight-forward knowledge and respect. I want everyone who has posted in this thread to know that it is very refreshing to be received so politely.

I was nervous about joining and posting because I have no knowledge of guns (neither does my dad). All of you have turned this into a very exciting and rewarding experience for me...and I thank you for that.

BACK TO THE TOPIC:
According to my dad, he has never seen the gun in anything but the simple 'gun bag' shown in the pictures of my initial post. Is the bag itself related to the gun? I'm guessing not. It's old and worn, but probably just some bag?

STANDING BREACH: I will post a picture of it tonight (I'm at work again now). However, I did not notice any markings on it yesterday.

SIMPLIFIED LANGUAGE: More thanks go out to all of you who have taken the time to 'dumb down' the explanations for me. It helps me learn and get you people the pictures you want to see.

I have learned more about guns in the past 2.5 days than I have in the previous 44 years of my life.

It is our sincere hope that this gun will be the start of a new interest-passion in your life. Be it just collecting or collecting and shooting fine guns. This is one of the best forums I belong to.