doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CLUELESS: Otto Bock? Pre-War? Please help

That is sufficient and confirms that um it passed thru the Zella-Mehlis proof facility. With a serial number like 19207, it would have been sourced from a larger Zella-Mehlis concern who in turn subed the tube work to Louis Kelber, one of the top tube makers on par with one of Belgium's best, Jean Falla. The tube makers were a very proud group and rightfully so as their work was the basis for the sporting arm. If the tubes burst on the 1st test, the tube maker had to replace at his expense. If the tubeset burst on the 2nd test then the tube makers & tubeset knitter accepted the blame. Then if the longarm submitted in the final state fails the proof test, then the whole lot of mechanics had to accept the failure and that along with compensation is the reason for the maker's touchmarks.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The preliminary answer to the author's question about value:

Gun is worth at least $1500 as-is, perhaps more, up to about $4500. Repaired and thoughtfully conserved it could be worth up to $7500. (after spending $1500-$2000 on repairs)

The unknowns that the readers are trying to determine that eliminate the big variance in values:

1. Patent type
2. Type of cartridge
3. Overall condition
4. Bore condition
5. Real maker (not the retailer on the rib)

Raimey and the rest of the crew will steer you right. Let's see if their appraisals match mine in the end. (they are waiting to give you a narrower estimate, I'm sure)

Ok, everyone thanks! I will get to it as soon as I get home this afternoon. Expect more pics later today...

I agree with the above assessment particularly if the caliber turns out to be one still loaded today.
I do have a question of my own? I'm wondering if the missing guard was one of the horn examples? These have always seen prone to breakage to me.
Jim

My first assumption, on seeing the trigger guard missing, was that the guard was of horn. It would match the buttplate, which also appears to be of horn.

Just to be a little clearer: there are two sets of "flats", which are the flat surfaces where the receiver (the part with the shoulder stock attached) and the barrels (not their business end) come together when the gun is closed. The "flats" on the receiver are called the "watertable" and the flats on the barrel are the "barrel flats".

Most of the proof marks we're interested in, and which will do a lot to flesh out the provenance, identity (and worth) of your gun will be located on or around the barrel flats. As noted above, the identities of the actual workmen who made the tubes (barrels), joined them (knitters), inspectors and the shops they worked for can be known because they all had unique identifying marks. (Some of the guys here have done some real scholarship on this.) Similarly, with German guns it is often possible to know the exact month in which the gun was "born" (sometimes, they take a while to get "made") because that is stamped on the barrel flats; it's possible this gun was made before that became the law in Germany, but we'll see when you get more pictures up. (From the looks of the design, it looks to me like an interwar gun.) And, of course, the caliber of the rounds used in this gun will be revealed by the marks.

As a double rifle, this gun is likely to be worth more than a similar double-barrelled shotgun made by the same shops/people at the same time and with the same level of engraving, wood and finishing. This is for two basic reasons: there were many fewer double rifles made than double shotguns and double rifles were far more expensive to begin with. Double rifles were (probably most) commonly used for dangerous game (big cats, rhinos, buffalo, elephants, etc.) because they provided the hunter with a second shot instantly ready without having to work the action in case the first one didn't do the job. Because the average guy didn't have the means or time to go the far distance and expense of safari, the average guy didn't have need for a double rifle.

All that said: I really like the engraving on the receiver. Looks good. Your grandfather had good taste in guns.

I took the gun apart just as mentioned. So here are the additional pictures....

You've got a gem in 9.3X74R in possibly a chopper lump tubeset. Can we get an image of the end with the extractor out?

Kind Regards

Raimey
rse

I don't know what you mean when you say the end with the extractor out? Can you post a similar picture to what you are looking to see?

Googled it...LOL...I see the extractor, but how does it come out?

EDIT: I've never felt like such an idiot in my life! Thanks again for the patience.

I had my fingers crossed for the owner Raimy that 9.3X74R would be the caliber. I agree this is a gem and well worth restoring.
If you go back up to the picture with the 9.1 It appears to be a chopper lump.

Dave in Maine:
I was trying to be as simple and straight forward as possible so he could disassemble the gun and figured if I so much as mentioned "water table" and "standing breach" etc. the owner would have decided we were all nuts and went somewhere else.
Jim

YES! I greatly apprecite the over-simplified wording.

Ok, I got it...here is the extractor: