doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Stanford & Laxton--Pics of Proofs added

Okay, so I now have the gun in hand. This is definately not what you would call a high end gun but it is indeed fairly light and does swing nice. The wood is very nice and it still has the horn buttplate. All screws are original except for the left hammer is a replacement. The bores are pretty good with about 4 pitt spots in each bore about 8 inches back from the muzzle. It locks up tight with no noticeable play. I cannot find a makers name. I don't know the year except by the 12/c that it is anywhere from about 1885-1924. I am also wondering about the twist pattern. I have included a couple of pics in areas where it is almost worn off. Shouldn't one still see the pattern or could this be one of those "fake patterns" that used to be done. If it is the real thing, can the pattern be brought back? This gun has the chambers with the defined shoulders and I have measured it a few times and I get 2 3/4" which surprises me.

gunsaholic,The proof marks are Birmingham Black powder as found on guns made between 1887 and 1904.The gun is stamped 14 which indicates a 14G gun?Often seen on pinfire guns seldom on C.F. most unusual![Eley was producing some 14G shells at the time your gun was made.] The origional chamber length was likely 21/2 inch. The left barrel has some degree of choke.The right is cylinder.

Thanks for the info Roy. You know, I looked at the 14 and so far it hadn't even clued into me that it is 14 gauge. Duh!

Edit--after my above reply, I realized that it can't be a 14 gauge. It has the proof mark of 12/c within the diamond which is for 12 gauge. So I went down and tried it and a 12 gauge fits with no problem. I also took a fired 2 3/4" shell, I made sure the crimp was expanded so it was snug in the chamber, and the gun closed with no problem , again indicating to me a 2 3/4" chamber.

I have not seen a 14 bore with 12 gauge chambers before. The reproof stamp may mean the chambers were reamed out from 14 to 12. Maybe there are the telltale,filled-in,little holes at the breech end of the batrrels? Then the pinfire/centerfire conv would be confirmed.
I would be very concerned about the recoil of even soft 12 gauge shells beating the hell out of this gun.

During the era this gun was proofed, the 14 stamp covered bore diameters up to .710 The bore diameters at proof were likely close
to that upper limit but by proof rules had to be stamped 14. I have seen a few pre-1887 12 bore hammer guns that were stamped with a bore diameter of 14.

Terry,You raise an interesting point in respect of bore sizes.
I see no evidence of a reproof stamp.We have the anomally of 12/C and the 14G barrel proof stamp.The proof and service loads for a 14G are less than for a 12G! It would appear that the Proof House was breaking its own rules? Comments from the Birmingham Proof House may be of value.

Hey Roy, the large R's under crowns on the barrels I thought were reproof marks. My mistake.
Anyways this would be a great photo to email to to the Birmingham proof house

Here are a couple of pics of the firing pin area.

The barrels are Twist. Faux Twist would have been roll graved, and (at least in my limited experience) unheard of on a British gun
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfg2hmx7_302dwsjk9cs

Roy, I would guess that the chambering of the gun would take precedence over the bore size as regards to the proof load used, as that would be the cartridge size being fired in it.The underbored 12's I've seen have typically been lower end HG's with heavy twist barrels. Something to do with their Belgian heritage I suspect.
Terry