doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hevi Shot "Classic Doubles" /Best Value non-tox?

I've not shot any of it but vintage gun shooting friends have confirmed what some of the other boys are saying, that it's pathetic as far as duck killing. A friend bought a case of the 2 3/4 20 gauge to use out of a Remington Model 11 and it was so low power it wouldn't even work the action with the rings on the light setting. He shot it on two different days out of another gun and said that what few birds he did knock down needed three or four cripple shots and he lost several.

I'm with 12brd, spend the extra money on some Kent TM and you won't be disappointed. I've been shooting it almost exclusively since it came out and can't tell the difference between it and the same load in lead. This from a guy who duck hunts two or three days a week through the entire Michigan and Ontario seasons. I'm not an occasional duck hunter, I'm serious about the sport, I use it because it kills birds dead in the air.


Destry

Why do you think it doesn't (or wouldn't) kill well ?


Joe, the shells seem to be slow, light payload and I have my suspicions that the shot either fragments or disintegrates upon firing. A long while back I put up a picture here on the doublegun site of some of the shot. It crushes to dust when hit with a hammer lightly. These shells are so light recoil, that I remarked when I first shot some that I truly think you could put the butt of the gun to your forehead and touch one off and not suffer ill effects. Try some, but have good shells for backup. JW

".....Holland "Northwood," which is a fairly modern gun. Obviously I cannot shoot steel....."

If it is a fairly modern gun, why is it "obvious" that you can not shoot steel??

Bismuth shot crushes to dust too....but it still kills and patterns good.

Why anyone would use it in a model 11 Remington is beyond me.

Because shooting steel shot through a fixed-choke double gun of any vintage is entirely inappropriate. Why risk the damage?

I don't agree. I do not shoot steel in any of my pre 1960s doubles, but my dedicated steel gun is a Miroku Daly with IC&MOD chokes and I'd probably be safe to shoot it in any of my post ww-2 guns choked that way. I've been shooting 2 3/4" steel 2s in it for years with no problem. Your mileage may differ...Geo

Joe, it kills but not dependable in my experience with it. When I started using it, I remember thinking "What's going on?" I swear by Kent TM No. 5 over decoys although I admit I was surprised last year by Bismuth No. 3 on geese over decoys from my three-inch 20.

I disagree with that statement, too. I have used steel in fixed choke BSSs for years, with no ill effects, except to the ducks.

SRH

The intended purpose of this discussion thread was not to debate the suitability of steel shot. However, since my thread has been directed that way, I shall clarify my comments.

When I indicated that a certain gun was of "relatively modern" manufacture, my intent was to convey its suitability for the 2 3/4" cartridges that I am inquiring about, as well as the pressures produced by the same. This was further spelled out with some specificity in my second post, in reply to Rookhook's comment. Perhaps I should have been more clear in the first post.

With regard my comments on steel shot, everything that I have been taught by gentlemen in this game for much, much longer than I, as well as everything that I have read on the subject, indicates that steel shot is, or at very least can be damaging to fine (fixed-choke) guns. As I have previously stated, why risk the damage?

Furthermore, my late father-in-law was directly and heavily involved in efforts to oppose steel shot regulations in the late 1980s. I have in my personal possession his files, which include literally dozens of letters solicited from fine gun manufacturers, mostly English, each indicating that steel shot should not be used in any of their guns. Given the volume and uniformity of opinion found in these letters, I am comfortable making the statement that use of steel shot in these guns is entirely inappropriate.

If others wish to risk damage to their guns with steel shot they are certainly entitled to do so. However, this is of no relevance to my original inquiry.

Thanks for all the replies concerning the "Classic Doubles" cartridges. I was not previously aware that many shooters feel that these loads are inadequate (for killing of ducks). That is a bit disturbing considering the price. I am now rethinking the purchase of a case....perhaps I'll try a box first. Or just suck it up and get the tungsten-matrix.

Thanks again.