doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 10 Ga. with 42" inch barrels saved from the barn

You probably won't find barrel flats or a water table on a muzzle loader.

Yeah, I know. I caught it well after I posted it. I was hoping no one else would. Oh well...

Pete

There will usually still be some proofmarks stamped under the barrels. Usually at least a guage.

Very nice..... Pictures of the trigger guard finial, ramrod entry and the butt plate "may" help date the gun as well. Pictures of the locks would be nice to see as well. Yes, rarely do you not see marks on the barrels bottom side, near the breech, see if you can post those also. Nice find, nice work, great looking gun.

well here are a few more pictures of the details , sorry for the size of these but any help identifying this would be great
http://picasaweb.google.com/hobtag/Details/photo?authkey=jtWwPNsL7ME#5027037972200175778

are these pictures to big ?

any ideas as to the proofs?

Well, they are Belgian. Most are specific to a muzzle loader. I can't make out some of the marks on the left barrel (bottom of right barrel). The only thing I can say for sure at this point from the proofs is that the gun was proofed after 1810.

There is a cursive L. Does it have a star * over it? Or is that really a cursive EL? This will help.

Pete

Your pic is not big enough on the bbl. markings. I can make out the Belgian 'EL' but that's all. Can you do a couple of macro shots, one on each bbl,?. I think that would help. There are several folks here w/good knowledge & ref materials, but they will need to see the markings as clearly as possible to better assist you. You might also do a good lead pencil rubbing on a sheet of white paper and then take a pic of that too.

I'd sure like to see a better photograph of those hammers. There could be a clue to the maker there. I would also contact the Proof house in Liege for their recommendations or thots about who to contact for further information on a muzzle loader like you have and also contact the arms museum there in Belgium and see if they may be able to assist you. A good clear set of photographs of the hammers, locks & any marks in addition to good clean photographs of the gun will be of great aid to the curator there. In any correspondence convert the measurements to millimeters & centimeters and the weights to kilos yourself. They don't always do good conversions abroad.

Here, there is a publication called Arms & the Man, or something very close, that deals with many antique arms and they may be able to help you with identification. I'm not a collector so do not subscribe to it and I may have the title wrong too, but someone here will jump in and correct me if so.

The 'Fine London Twist' in bold gold on the rib could have been but a marketing ploy as a lot of games were being played in those days. I wish we had Oscar and Russ around to inject their thoughts. I don't pretend to know, but I really like those hammers!

Hope something here may help you in some small way.

Styling looks mid 1850's to me. The motifs are very similar to my 1857 Englsih Frazier. I see a E L G in an oval, and the perron mark. There may be an inspectors mark - a single initial with a star over it - but I cannot tell from the photo. That started in 1853 as well.

The proof law of 1853 re-instituted the perron mark, according to my understanding of Wirnsberger, so the gun is post 1853.

Regards

GKT

Which begs another question. Does that single letter have a * or small crown over it? A single letter with a small crown was used from 1853-1877 as the controller's mark. After 1877 it became a *.

Pete