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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,971 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,971 Likes: 105 |
Joe Wood makes a good point about leaving the chambers alone. There are also some great 2-1/2" shells out there from RST, New Era and Polywad. I use RSTs in a twist steel 10 gauge Baker and Polywad Vintagers in an 1877 vintage Parker with twist steel barrels. Your Trojan should be okay with them. I just bought a very nice 20 gauge Trojan and use the Polywad Vintagers. Cheers! But the point is there is absolutely no need or benefit to use short hulls in these guns with 2 5/8" chambers. Repeated tests by Sherman Bell, Gough Thomas, Burrard, etc., have shown no danger in shooting a slightly longer hull in these guns. And Parker, L.C. Smith, and others thought it was best for the hull to open inside the forcing cone to assure a proper gas seal. That's why they recommended the longer hull to be shot in their shorter chambered guns. Another point: I have found many of the so called 2 3/4" hulls actually are closer to 2 5/8" when fired. Conclusion: Keep life simple and buy reasonably loaded ammunition off the local shelf. Out of respect for the age of the gun I'd avoid anything over 1 1/8 ounce, preferring 1 ounce. Stay away from hyper velocity stuff.
John McCain is my war hero.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 268 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 268 Likes: 11 |
nh: if you disagree with my advise or opinion, just say so. is it really necessary to be so hostile and vindictive?
you appear to be one of a few who use this forum to vent your hostility. try chopping wood. it's far more productive. Hostile and vindictive, hardly. Just doing what was needed to prove to the OP your advice was bad news and I said so. I also gave you the opportunity to demonstrate what a $600 Parker restock looks like, which you didn't do. I never attacked you, only your advice. You on the other hand have now made it personal. Hostile and vindictive I am you say. Looks to be the other way around, you are attacking the messenger rather than the message. Have you signed up for the Obama 2012 campaign, they are looking for just such skills 
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,330 Likes: 156
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,330 Likes: 156 |
nh: perhaps if you would have honestly stated your motives up front, without deception, then i could have chosen to ignore you...as i will now do in future threads.
Last edited by ed good; 08/16/11 09:44 AM.
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 268 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 268 Likes: 11 |
nh: perhaps if you would have honestly stated your motives up front, without deception, then i could have chosen to ignore you...as i will now do in future threads. Promise?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167 |
Joe Wood makes a good point about leaving the chambers alone. There are also some great 2-1/2" shells out there from RST, New Era and Polywad. I use RSTs in a twist steel 10 gauge Baker and Polywad Vintagers in an 1877 vintage Parker with twist steel barrels. Your Trojan should be okay with them. I just bought a very nice 20 gauge Trojan and use the Polywad Vintagers. Cheers! But the point is there is absolutely no need or benefit to use short hulls in these guns with 2 5/8" chambers. Repeated tests by Sherman Bell, Gough Thomas, Burrard, etc., have shown no danger in shooting a slightly longer hull in these guns. And Parker, L.C. Smith, and others thought it was best for the hull to open inside the forcing cone to assure a proper gas seal. That's why they recommended the longer hull to be shot in their shorter chambered guns. Another point: I have found many of the so called 2 3/4" hulls actually are closer to 2 5/8" when fired. Conclusion: Keep life simple and buy reasonably loaded ammunition off the local shelf. Out of respect for the age of the gun I'd avoid anything over 1 1/8 ounce, preferring 1 ounce. Stay away from hyper velocity stuff. I agree that the length of the hull really isn't the issue--but that does not mean we should recommend firing American factory ammo in ALL vintage guns with short chambers. Both MAJ Burrard and G. Thomas agree that the case length in and of itself won't be a problem, but the higher pressures of American factory ammo can be. As noted earlier, I don't consider that to be a problem in stout guns like Parker Trojans, but it may very well be an issue in a lighter European or British gun.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,971 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,971 Likes: 105 |
Very well said, Larry. Sorry I failed to add that warning! I was addressing this particular Parker Trojan. I shoot a lot of very vintage guns--going back to 1870--and shoot 2 3/4" hulls but I reload to very reasonable pressures, such as 7,000 psi or lower. Hard to buy off the shelf ammo in this length with low pressure. However, I understand Winchester's Low Recoil, Low Noise shells (Feather Lite) fit into this catagory nicely.
Thanks for the correction, Larry.
John McCain is my war hero.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Joe;
Fully agree with what you are saying here & especially in relation to the Parker's chamber. As to the L C Smith, I haven't really mesured any chambers to verify, but all the specs found in the "L C Smith Plans & Specifications" book show 12ga chambers as having a length of 2 3/4". I was under the impression that any Smith's having a chamber shorter than 2 3/4" would be a very old one indeed & would not as such have been designated for use with that length of shell. Do you have verification that Smith actually built guns with shorter chambers specifically for use with the longer shells as did Parker.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,971 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,971 Likes: 105 |
Miller, all I would have on Elsies would be second hand, nothing from primary source.
John McCain is my war hero.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,574 Likes: 167 |
Miller, Mark Beasland currently has a gorgeous Elsie with Bernard Damascus barrels, early 1890's gun, in his inventory. Had I caught your post yesterday, I would've measured the chambers when I was down at his place. I'll try to remember to do that next time I see that gun, or have him do it. I tend to forget that Elsies seem to have been standardized at 2 3/4" in 12ga back when the other makers were still turning out a lot of 2 5/8" guns.
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