doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pre-1917 Russian 20ga hammer sxs?

Yea, Dave, your reseaching was successfull, its Model B, but prewar or just after war one, made during Soviet period. Solid gun and in 20g is in great demand here now.

I thought it might be just after WWI for a reason the pictures might not show (well). On the right barrel's flat, nearest the breech and farthest from the fasteners, is a word in Cyrillic script. See http://s1087.photobucket.com/albums/j478/DaveinMaine/?action=view&current=100_0590.jpg the lower right of the frame. One of the letters - the fourth from the right - resembles the Greek letter theta, which my research of the Cyrillic alphabet tells me was dropped from Russian about 1918.

Any idea on what the stamps mean? We've been operating under the assumption that the 70 on the left barrel's flat means a 70mm chamber, but measuring it (admittedly not with a proper chamber gage) came up a little short. The forcing cones seem short, but it was a bit hard to feel where the chamber ended and the cone started.

Agree with Geno. Prewar, maybe put together from prewar leftover parts in 1944-46, no later.

The letter you refer to is a proper modern Cyrillic alphabeth letter, standing for one of the vowels, and consisting of two symbols. The stamp is actually the nitro proof sign, in the very literal sence, consisting of the words "proofed with smoleless powder", and it's this mark that dates the gun. The other marks on the right-hand flat mean the barrel dia. (15.5 mm), the BP initial proof, and the load of 4.8 gramms of (black) powder and 30 gramms of shot, which I think is the proof load (not sure, could be the recommended load for the heavy 20s).

The left-hand flat contains the indication to model, chamber length (70 mm), and the constriction of the barrel (the cylinder in the right, light full in the left were the standard setup for Model B, and in fact for all Soviet pre-War double guns). That is to say, you evaluated all the proof marks correctly.

I think it's exactly the case for "judge the gun, not the name" approach. The Model B was at a time the most common gun in the USSR, which naturally brought about a lot of legends. In reality they were - in the lowest grade - little more than overweighed clankers with greatly variable quality; of 10 guns, 1 or two would be as good as they get, 2 or 3 worthless junk, and the rest somewhere in between. Naturally, the best ones figured in legend, and the worst ones were quickly disposed of and forgotten. The higher grade guns were made in all levels of quality from good to best. The factory was really capable when they wanted; in the early 1920's they made an exact copy of the Westley Richards drop lock system, and it turned out not much worse than the original.

This gun is surely above the ordinary, by how much - I can't tell, the engraving is just what you'll see on the lowest grade guns, the stock looks as good as the highest grades. I think you'll do a reasonably accurate approximation of the value if you think of it as a Belgian gun of the same era, with no name recognition factor.

And yes, the forcing cones on all SOviet guns tended to be on the short side.