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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,814 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,814 Likes: 2 |
What Larry said! I have a guest/hunter who shoots nothing but 3 inch Mag # 4's in a Beretta OU.Xtra full chokes. He wears a thingydingy on his knuckle to slow down the bruising from the trigger. He doesnt kill s**t. Shoots at everything that flies. He would have alot more fun with lighter loads and more open chokes, but He has a PHD, so cant tell him nuttin...
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6 |
Sir Ralph has one more salient point to add to this topic: Let me here remark that, for all-round shooting, there is no advantage whatever in the traditional custom of having one barrel of a gun bored to fire a closer pattern than the other, especially as regards driven game, as in the latter case, taking the shots that offer one with another, there is no constant difference in the ranges at which the birds pass overhead; and, even when walking up partridges or grouse, it generally occurs that the first to rise are the old birds, as they are the wildest, and hence a long shot to the right barrel is as likely as to the left one. Gunmakers seem to imagine that it is the constant habit of game to rise in pairs, and offer a near and then a distant shot in succession to each barrel as fired. If a shooter fired all his life at pigeons sprung from traps, or made it a rule to miss with his first barrel, it would be another matter. THE SELECTION OF A GUN IN REGARD TO ITS WEIGHT AND CHARGE, By Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey As a side note, he also concludes that subgauges are to be avoided: Guns of 16-, 20-, and 28-bore always handle and feel pleasant, especially in a gunmaker's shop, and give the idea that they must be easy to hit with as a natural consequence; but from numerous experiments, both at the target and in the field, I can positively state that any bore smaller than a 12 is not so effective on game, nor so easy to aim straight with, as the latter size. Small-gauge barrels of necessity shoot weaker than a larger size: they have a more open pattern if cylinders, and a closer if chokes; they do not shoot so regularly, and, in proportion, recoil more than do 12-bores.* Perhaps this explains why early Brit subgauges are so scarce 
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 19
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 19 |
... Chuck, I am breaking my wifes big Gelding to shot for you, he is already a cross country champ hunter/jumper, so if you can stay on him, you will be able to see your pointer in the distance... Chuck, I'll bring my saddle, but how will I know if you got it done? If you will video your efforts, I'll sneak a little hooch into the orthopedic ward when I come visit.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1 |
Sir Ralph has one more salient point to add to this topic: Let me here remark that, for all-round shooting, there is no advantage whatever in the traditional custom of having one barrel of a gun bored to fire a closer pattern than the other, especially as regards driven game, as in the latter case, taking the shots that offer one with another, there is no constant difference in the ranges at which the birds pass overhead; and, even when walking up partridges or grouse, it generally occurs that the first to rise are the old birds, as they are the wildest, and hence a long shot to the right barrel is as likely as to the left one. Gunmakers seem to imagine that it is the constant habit of game to rise in pairs, and offer a near and then a distant shot in succession to each barrel as fired. If a shooter fired all his life at pigeons sprung from traps, or made it a rule to miss with his first barrel, it would be another matter. THE SELECTION OF A GUN IN REGARD TO ITS WEIGHT AND CHARGE, By Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey As a side note, he also concludes that subgauges are to be avoided: Guns of 16-, 20-, and 28-bore always handle and feel pleasant, especially in a gunmaker's shop, and give the idea that they must be easy to hit with as a natural consequence; but from numerous experiments, both at the target and in the field, I can positively state that any bore smaller than a 12 is not so effective on game, nor so easy to aim straight with, as the latter size. Small-gauge barrels of necessity shoot weaker than a larger size: they have a more open pattern if cylinders, and a closer if chokes; they do not shoot so regularly, and, in proportion, recoil more than do 12-bores.* Perhaps this explains why early Brit subgauges are so scarce In regard to rough shooting Burrard, Askin, Garwood - all endorse a different choke between the two barrels. In my personal experience sometimes the first shot is missed or the bird is wounded. The tighter choke on the left barrel gives an advantage on the longer shot. As long as we are straying in to big bore versus small bore discussion certainly an 8 pound 10 gauge 3-1/2" magnum can and would be the most effective off-the-shelf gun and cartridge available in the US for shooitng Bobwhite over pointing dogs. I think it misses the spirit and essence of the sport. When you use it to shoot ducks or perhaps pigeons then I see less of a conflict with tradition and sport. And were one to shoot the Bobwhite on the ground whilst they are covied up, say from the pickup window at twenty five yards, perhaps the ultimate would be a four bore with three and one half ounces of #9s out of a cylinder choke. I think one could bag the entire covey if both barrels were fired one after the other and both open choked. And this is perfectly legal as long as your pickup and birds are on private land. Now if you were to ground swat the covey at a more sporting forty yards perhaps modified and 6s would be the better choice.
I am glad to be here.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6 |
Or perhaps a punt gun on wheels?
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1 |
I am glad to be here.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 19
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 19 |
Sir Ralph has one more salient point to add to this topic: Let me here remark that, for all-round shooting, there is no advantage whatever in the traditional custom of having one barrel of a gun bored to fire a closer pattern than the other, especially as regards driven game, as in the latter case, taking the shots that offer one with another, there is no constant difference in the ranges at which the birds pass overhead; and, even when walking up partridges or grouse, it generally occurs that the first to rise are the old birds, as they are the wildest, and hence a long shot to the right barrel is as likely as to the left one. Gunmakers seem to imagine that it is the constant habit of game to rise in pairs, and offer a near and then a distant shot in succession to each barrel as fired. If a shooter fired all his life at pigeons sprung from traps, or made it a rule to miss with his first barrel, it would be another matter. THE SELECTION OF A GUN IN REGARD TO ITS WEIGHT AND CHARGE, By Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey As a side note, he also concludes that subgauges are to be avoided: Guns of 16-, 20-, and 28-bore always handle and feel pleasant, especially in a gunmaker's shop, and give the idea that they must be easy to hit with as a natural consequence; but from numerous experiments, both at the target and in the field, I can positively state that any bore smaller than a 12 is not so effective on game, nor so easy to aim straight with, as the latter size. Small-gauge barrels of necessity shoot weaker than a larger size: they have a more open pattern if cylinders, and a closer if chokes; they do not shoot so regularly, and, in proportion, recoil more than do 12-bores.* Perhaps this explains why early Brit subgauges are so scarce In regard to rough shooting Burrard, Askin, Garwood - all endorse a different choke between the two barrels. In my personal experience sometimes the first shot is missed or the bird is wounded. The tighter choke on the left barrel gives an advantage on the longer shot. As long as we are straying in to big bore versus small bore discussion certainly an 8 pound 10 gauge 3-1/2" magnum can and would be the most effective off-the-shelf gun and cartridge available in the US for shooitng Bobwhite over pointing dogs. I think it misses the spirit and essence of the sport. When you use it to shoot ducks or perhaps pigeons then I see less of a conflict with tradition and sport. And were one to shoot the Bobwhite on the ground whilst they are covied up, say from the pickup window at twenty five yards, perhaps the ultimate would be a four bore with three and one half ounces of #9s out of a cylinder choke. I think one could bag the entire covey if both barrels were fired one after the other and both open choked. And this is perfectly legal as long as your pickup and birds are on private land. Now if you were to ground swat the covey at a more sporting forty yards perhaps modified and 6s would be the better choice. Perhaps, if efficiently putting meat on the table were the goal, the store would be an option. If efficient killing were the goal, pen raising the birds, shooting them in the pen would be another solution. Me, I'm headed in the opposite direction. I'm looking for more challenge and have gone to extremely small bores. It gives me more pleasure to take the same number or less birds with a .410 as it does with a 12g. Do what makes you feel good (within the law of course). I know Mikey challenges himself with trying to teach Joe to shoot and managing 3 or 4 wild canines all at the same time and shoots an occasional single shot to boot. An honorable effort, even if futile. 
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,028 Likes: 125
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,028 Likes: 125 |
Chuck: You are only shooting 2 1/2 inch shells in that .410er of yours, right?? Cuz if you are shooting 3 inch shells you are really shooting a 28 ga and are just kidding us. HaHa
Socialism is almost the worst.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,462 Likes: 89 |
In regard to rough shooting Burrard, Askin, Garwood - all endorse a different choke between the two barrels. In my personal experience sometimes the first shot is missed or the bird is wounded. The tighter choke on the left barrel gives an advantage on the longer shot.
And if the first shot is long and the quarry is wounded...the more open barrel is useless. That's why I feel equal choke is better in most hunting situations.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 19
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 19 |
Buzz,
I'm just kidding you. Come shoot with me. Even with the "just kidding" shells it's really rewarding. 'makes usin a 12g feel like pickin up ugly old women at the grocery store.
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