doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Steel Shot in Vintage Doubles...

I have given this subject of steel shot in older guns some thought and I conclude a ammo maker or wad maker could indeed create a wad that would allow this to be done with little chance of harm to twentieth century shotgun. As already pointed out the pressure can be made appropriate so the problem of steel shot through the choke remains the problem. A 12 gauge bore is around .729 and the full choke restriction is .040 or a diameter of .689. A 16 gauge bore is .662 that is less than the full choke constriction of the 12 so by designing a wad for a 12ga with a 16 shot column size, has the shot missing the choke by .067 or about the diameter of a piece of 8 shot. Now a problem may arrive with the shot shifting rearward and this causing some exspansion and rigidity, again creating some possibilty that bridging could occur exceed the .067 cushion, so perhaps a countering plastic crusher could be employed to reduce the bridge effect. The result might be a 12ga with full choke throwing 16ga cylinder patterns but if I could keep shooting my old guns for grouse, woodcock, dove and skeet I'd learn to live with it. I will point out the our Pennsylvania Game Commision loses hunters and license sales, every time the price rises even though some point out how reasonable the price remains. The PGC is running a deficit an is scrambling to figure out how to keep people hunting. It is always concluded that since fewer licenses are sold the price must be increased. This works with products like shotshells too. The fewer who want them the fewer are made and the price goes higher. I would use Bismuth or whatever to keep shooting my Fox in the grouse woods, but the preseason practice shooting would be a killer. If I buy another gun for the practice I might as well use it for the grouse. I hope the shell manufacturers are working on those wads.

I think outlawing lead shot was a mistake. I understand that some waterfowl died after injesting lead shot, but many birds have been crippled with steel that otherwise might have been brought to hand. How about this for a solution:

Let waterfowlers shoot lead shot, but tax it so that it's price is equivalent to that of steel. Turn that increased revenue into a Ducks Unlimited-type conservation program. Long term, wildlife suffers most from lost of habitat, not a few injested lead fragments

I've shot quite a few clay birds with 5/8 of steel 7's at 1300. Wonderful light load. Used 7/8 of steel 6's for long birds. But I don't use them in my tight choked Cashmore. Not on purpose at least, I did put a few of the 7's through by mistake once with no discernible damage. I'd be happy to use them in a similar gun with less choke.

ben-t,

Well said! I think Federal's Flight Control wad for steel shot would work for steel shot in older barrels of lower carbon steel. The Flight Control wad keeps all the shot securing in the shot cup until it leaves the barrel. Then air resistance opens the wad releasing the shot. This helps the shot retain velocity a little longer.

When there is enough demand to be profitable, we will see smaller steel shot loads for older guns.

Mark

George, have you ever measured the bores against the muzzle measurement? I had two Miroku/Daly 500s marked ic/mod. They were actually sk2 and IM. However, those guns are tough.

I often hunt upland game where non-toxic shot is mandatory. and sometime use one of my vintage SxS's. I have used 12 gauge #3 and #4 steel shot in "open-choked" older SxS's, with zero problems to date. I do not use steel shot in barrels tighter than modified.

I do use bismuth shot in the full choked barrels (at $3 per shell!).

JERRY

At my age, for hunting, I'll use non-tox at whatever the cost. Every shot is worth it, hit or miss. What individual sport provides more satisfaction than a day's hunting? What should I be saving my money for? Kent matrix is expensive and my bismuth handloads cost $1.43 but how does parsimony gets mixed up with pleasure when it comes to dogs, birds, boats, frosty mornings and old guns? Steel is poison.

I couldn't agree more King B. I don't have any problems with steel because I never use it and never will!!!

KB, I am sure you are speaking only for yourself and wouldn't be so brash as to think everyone, not your age, should follow that mantra. Though a fellow I know says something simular when he goes to buy his lottery tickets. I have often thought if I just knew for sure when I was going to die I might find I'm wealthier than I think. The part about steel being poison, you'll have to explain to me if throwing caution to the wind is the call. But seriously speaking, steel maybe the only practical thing to keep many people shooting shotguns. Hey it could be battery powered cars more than government regulations that eliminate lead shot! But to say other non-toxics are all there is has no more rationale than saying you shouldn't be allowed to hunt unless your gun cost atleast $10,000. and your white. I of course wish you such good health that you must eat your words.

No, I have not. My gun has 28" barrels and I am sure was originally choked Mod and Full. Jim Legg opened the chokes and they measure IC and Mod on my Galazan drop in guage. They may well be more open than that. Anyhow they seem to work well with steel shot...Geo