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I don't think the number of Vintagers members versus NSCA members has a thing to do with the conversation at hand. NSCA types don't go to game fairs and Vintager types don't shoot steel.

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Originally Posted By: eightbore
I don't think the number of Vintagers members versus NSCA members has a thing to do with the conversation at hand. NSCA types don't go to game fairs and Vintager types don't shoot steel.


Thanks, Eightbore. Excellent point and well stated. Let's stay focused on the steel vs. lead issue.
JR


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God bless America, long live the Republic.
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Sorry that I come late to this thread, too busy in the workshop recently to browse online!
To return to the original post, I think it a great shame that the organisers decided to target the same weekend of the Vintage Cup. If this was an unfortunate error, it does not look good for their organisational ability. I think I spy a dastardly plot!
No doubt the vendors who have deserted the 'ailing' Vintage Cup for a new market will do well or at least I hope they do or there will be egg on some faces.
I grant the complainers have had poor attendance and other issues with the recent move to Maryland but in the light of what has been going on in the world since then, I think most are looking for reasons beyond the obvious.
I will stick with the Vintage Cup for the foreseeable future and the more dealers of English S/S's that go elsewhere the better for me.
I hate competition!
I look forward to seeing friends old and new at Pintail Point.

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I think Toby Barclay has hit a nerve. It is crazy for a promoter to try to kill another promoter's customer base, when all that does is throw a wrench into the vendors' as well as the customers' schedules and enjoyment. This is one situation you can't blame on Ray P. Some vendors, such as Steve Barnett, for example, would like to get the exposure offered by both events, but is prevented from doing so by the bad behavior of the new promoter. Steve is too much a man to bring that up. He had to make a choice and is forced to pick the new venue. His business sense forced this decision.

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Isn't it possible that SCI and QU really didn't think that an event such as this, in Georgia, would have attendance hurt by an event in Maryland? Many of us/you don't mind driving 600-800 miles for an event like this, but what percentage of possible attendees does that represent? A very, very small percentage, I imagine.

Distance probably played into Steve's decision as well. If he can drive half the distance, or less, and play to a new audience, he may be better off.

SRH

Last edited by Stan; 07/04/11 07:01 PM.

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Over the weekend, I have heard from a number of industry people familiar with the event and have basically heard the same story, that the steel shot requirement is mostly a major – some might say epic - corporate screw up on the part of the Merrill Trust Communities & Resorts, which is the developer of Foxhall. Here is the story as I’ve heard it:

Originally a $20 million equestrian facility, resort developer Merrill bought the property in 2005 and got it approved for development in 2009. Everyone says Foxhall is a spectacular, no expense spared facility and should be perfect for a game fair. While the sporting club offers memberships, it’s not primarily a sporting venue, it’s an 1100 acre, billion dollar, planned 900 home, 900 hotel room development near downtown Atlanta which is using the sporting lifestyle as a magnet to attract well healed Atlanta residents to build expensive new homes. It’s a tremendously ambitious project given the current real estate and resort markets.

Think of it as similar to a home and resort development built around a TPC golf course. Just as nongolfers are drawn to a prestigious golf course development, a lot of people are drawn to living an upscale English style sporting lifestyle, even if they seldom participate in it.

In January 2010, Foxhall announced plans to build a high end English-style “British Shooting Grounds” to be designed by Chris Batha. (see press release link below). This would have been a centerpiece of the new game fair. Unfortunately, it seems the company official assigned to oversee the project was unfamiliar and possibly uninterested in shooting, and for whatever reason, the project appears to have been dropped and Chris Batha has not been involved for some time.

The original plans were for a traditional sporting clays course and instruction facility aimed at attracting fine gun enthusiasts who would blend into a community of exclusive homes. The clays course designers and the real estate developers disagreed on the location of a new course. The developers wanted a location in a low area close to the river, which the course designers warned might run afoul of the EPA and necessitate steel shot, ruining the objective of attracting upscale gun owners. Instead of accepting the advice of the designers to build at a more suitable location on the property, the real estate developers hired another course designer to build the course where they wanted it near the water and implemented the steel shot requirement.

The “green certification” justification for steel shot looks like a CYA move dreamed up in the PR shop to cover up the fact that they put the course in the wrong place. The certification is granted by the National Association of Home Builders, not an environmental agency. It appears to have nothing to do with the clays course. As often happens when the PR folks don’t know their audience, the “green” justification for steel shot has inflamed, rather than placated critics and drug the sponsors into the lead vs. steel shot controversy. Perhaps they had the green argument ready for criticism from environmentalists and PETA types, and didn’t understand they couldn’t use it on gun owners.

As a result of this, the steel mandate is in place for this year and the shooting portion of the game fair is basically worthless. The high end gun vendors are unhappy. While they still expect a lot of new potential customers and collectors to come to the event, the shooting portion is not what they expected and is obviously less of a draw for fine gun enthusiasts. The bigger vendors are also unhappy that they will either have to miss the Vintage Cup or split their stock between both events. SCI and Quail Unlimited have egg on their face and have been put on the wrong side of the lead shot debate. And the Vintage Cup has been stabbed in the back to top it all off.

Most everyone seems to think that in spite of the wasted opportunity with the clays course, the event will still attract a large crowd, even if the 30K attendees estimate put forth by the organizers seems overly optimistic. There’s still a lot to see and do at the event, even if people can’t shoot. Some suspect September Atlanta weather might not be the best for shooting anyway.

A U.S. Game Fair has the potential to be a great event. I still say its up to Safari Club and Quail Unlimited to fix the shooting problem at Foxhall, or find a more suitable venue for next year, as the event has their name on it. Also, as this is a new event, the organizers need to be sensitive to shooters and vendors and look for a date that doesn’t conflict with other major shooting events. That can’t always happen, but its obviously in everyone's interest to do so.

__________________________________

Foxhall Press Release: International Senior Shooting Instructor Chris Batha Joins Foxhall Resort and Sporting Club Outside Atlanta

http://writewellmedia.wordpress.com/2010...utside-atlanta/

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Yup- Toby- dem ol "dastards" are afoot- myself, being an old bog trottin' Mick- has no truck wit dem swells at the Vintage Cup, I likes de shootin' wit dem side-by-each shotty guns, but havin to dress up like the Limey Tout in the great 1980's movie "The Sting"- the scene in Henry Goniff's faux betting parlor (opps- parlour to you I am sure)- but us Mick's don't much often get asked to shoot driven birdies at Lord Muckinfutch's Manor- I just takes one of my Smith or Parker 12 bores and a baggo AA reloads and heads for the area dairy farms and shoots pigeons- actualloy, the waistcoats and ties and tattersall shirts and breeks might not work as well as my basic Carhartt-Filson-Columbia-Dickies ensembles, but those swell green Limey rubber boots- Wellies, ey wot? if they are as resistant to cow poop as my Red Wings are, why not??


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Just how much methanol do you drink?

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Foxie, there is no cause for alarm. Just do not wear the following types of clothing and you will be ok: jeans or denim in general, no baseball caps, and anything CAMO. Absolutely no CAMOuflage of any kind!

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Daryl,

Thanks for all the good info and background on this situation. I'd like to see both the Game Fair and the Vintage Cup succeed.

George

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