doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com EPIC Game Fair vs Vintage Cup Exhibitors

Well look fellas, after all, it's their party. If you want to play in their yard and play with their toys, you've got to play by their rules. JMHO

Best Regards, George

OR NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Race has nothing to do with this, though some might draw that incorrect conclusion from my prior comment. I'm not sure politics do, though if they do it's not in a partisan sense. It's not different from the wars between the Liberal and Conservative parties in Victorian England - both were of, and only of, the richest class in the country, their political philosophies were indistinguishable, and the fight was over who was "in" and who was "out".

What the organizers are doing by tolerating the presence of and providing a special area for gunners shooting lead is segregating the shooting crowd by the kind of shot they use. They are saying, in so many words, that "you lead-shooters are inferior, but we'll put up with you". It's the formation of in-groups and out-groups for no good reason. Well, no good reason other than the people forming the groups and enforcing the segregation see some advantage - probably pecuniary - to doing so, and have too much time on their hands.

Unfortunately, this whole issue of mandating steel/non-toxic shot for everything is based on next-to-no science and a lot of emotion and portends a very bad future for the shooting sports - all of them. It's a stupid fight and one which will end up with the end of hunting and the shooting sports as anything other than an occasional sideshow for a very tiny minority.

Respectfully as well;
My statement still stands. How many people belong to the Vintagers, - Now compare that number to how many people belong to the NSCA.
The math is inescapable. The vast majority of Sporting Clays Shooters shoot over/unders or automatics vs. Vintage Side x Sides.
The math is on the EPIC management's side. They really don't care about the Vintage Side x Side shooters. Otherwise they would have picked a different venue.
Also, excluding Vintage Doubles and Wingshooting Adventures, the vendors you mention have extensive inventories in firearms other than side x sides and I'm sure that they will be on display at EPIC.

I think Mike The Bear is on target. We SxS lovers and shooters are a pimple on the butt of shotgun shooters in general--to coin a phrase! A very tiny--but enthusiastic and vocal minority. The vendors are in this to make a living and it is not cheap to haul 200 guns around the country and set up in a tent in the Chesapeake bay area to show your wares to virtually the same 5-800 people year after year. I can see where a new venue would be attractive to the larger national dealers. I've been to numerous SCI shows in Reno and Vegas and they attract many well heeled attendees. With SCI backing, this Gamefair-at least for now--will draw thousands of people from all over the country AND they will spend $$$. It would be nice if the dates did not conflict but we can't do anything about that. The Vintage Cup is going to have to rethink how it operates going forward. It too, is a business with the motive of making money for a few individuals. The Vintage Cup had a monopoly on this type of event for quite a few years. That is over forever. Times change--interests change--competition forces change. Nothing lasts forever. The VC may survive, but I suspect it will be smaller and in a different venue. One final comment--the non-tox shot issue is NEVER going to go away. We will fight the battle for years to come but despite the fact the idea or the science my be faulty--we will lose. Enjoy your lead shot now--your children and most probably your grandchildren will not have the opportunity in ever increasing areas of the United States.

There is a true game fair this September where your lead shot and Vintage gun are welcome: The Orvis Family Game Fair & Orvis Cup shoot. They also provide Davidoff cigars and have a single malt tasting (what a call an ATF event: alcohol, tobacco & firearms). I went last year and it was a great time with great vendors.

http://www.orvis.com/intro.aspx?dir_id=22592&group_id=22968&subject=8953

http://www.orvis.com/intro.aspx?dir_id=22592&group_id=22968&subject=8754

Regardless of our discussion here, I would love to have attended the Douglasville event. Maybe next year. What an unfortunate scheduling snafu. I only go to four or five large outdoor shotgun events per year that include side by sides. I could have added one to my schedule. I got to know the Millbrook area pretty well over the years. Maybe I'll do the Orvis event.

Mike, you might want to take a bit closer look at those vendors' inventories. Steve Barnett, for example: in 12ga, he currently lists 80 sxs (not counting twice for pairs) as opposed to 45 OU's (and a few scattered autos, pumps, and SBT's). Of the 45 OU's, 18 are Browning Superposeds (through which Browning--if you visit their website--says "don't shoot steel!") Minus the Brownings and 5 A-10's, that's half his OU inventory. Other choices would include Boss, Famars, Beretta SO's, etc--not exactly the guns that appeal to the vast majority of those NSCA members. G&H does have a lot of new OU's, although their used inventory (like Barnett's) is dominated by sxs. The vast majority of guns in the inventories of the vendors I listed (other than G&H's inventory of new OU's) consists of either fine sxs or very high dollar OU's. An NSCA member looking for an autoloader would hardly make a long trek to GA just to see what those vendors have. Or for that matter, to look at Beretta or Japanese Browning OU's, which are available lots of places--including in the inventories of vendors who will show up at SC shoots much closer to home. On the other hand, with vendors like Kirby Hoyt and Barnett and G&H and Wingshooting Adventures, you'll see more fine guns than you'd ever see at even a very large SC shoot--especially sxs--and in fact more fine guns than you'd see anywhere other than the Vintagers or one of the (still relatively few) large sxs events, or at Vegas. This is not your typical NSCA list of vendors.

Most NSCA shooters, of which I am one, look at their guns as tools, almost like an axe or a shovel. This is an over-simplification I realize, but very few NSCA shooters are fine gun enthusiasts.

Many have high dollar O/U's from Perazzi, Krieghoff, etc., but most have little knowledge of what makes a fine gun "fine"; they just want it to break targets with aplomb and look pretty. They just know that Joe Shmoe has a P-gun and shoots his really well, so they got one too. It's a "me too" crowd to a large extent, but it's all about performance.

All you see on courses today are raised ribs and adjustable combs and butts. Aesthetics matter little to these guys; they're much more concerned about which brand of choke tube is the hottest thing going.

I feel like a real loner sometimes at these events.
JR

John -I agree that sporting clay shooters are interested in performance mostly, but the majority of regular shooters ( not sponsored) still like the aesthetics of traditional shotguns. Even tho they don't have the interest in the mechanicals & embellishments of the finer guns as other enthusiasts may have.

A lot of P & K guns but a lot more B type guns, but there are some painted, colorful semi-autos mainly for the younger shooters! Adjustable combs are present, but adjustable buttplates are much fewer. But you may have more converted trapshooters in your area than mine!