doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Heym rifle date of manufacture

Thanks for the effort.











Can you tell me what the marks are on the underside of the tube?:




1936 Model 180

Here's a thread on a similar Greifeldt staker:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=207429#Post207429

I think this examples attempts to answer the time frame of Gebr�der Heym which would be somewhere around say 1910 to early 1945.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Otto:
Any history on the stalker, GI bring back, etc.? I don't see a repair or reproof stamp on the tube unless it is on the side. Any sign of repair to the receiver? I wonder if there was some frame filing on the sideframe reinforcement or if some metal was removed from the receiver in early 1945? The answer(s) may lie with the Suhl proofhouse records if any exist for early 1945.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

No history on the stalker.
No markings on the top or sides of the barrel.
No sign of receiver repair. If a new barrel was fitted would they stamp the barrel or receiver with the eagle over "J"?
I can't find the two barrel tube marks in "The Standard Directory of Proof marks" but will try to poist a close up.
http://s585.photobucket.com/albums/ss291...relMarkings.jpg
Otto

(hint - copy the IMG code if you wish to post the image)

That's the best YJ, or whatever it is, forge stamp I've seen. No, you would not find these task marks in any proofmark reference that I am aware of. It notes 2 tasks or 2 efforts on the tube. Gebr�der Heym either sourced the longarm from Fredrich Wilhelm Heym or sourced the same contractor. The scrip "L" has been a hot topic as of late.


Hermann Weihrauch Zella-Mehlis O/U late 1940s



http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=231195#Post231195
This may be the same forge mark, slightly worn, but a single stamp noting a single task.


Greifeldt in 5.6X52R

A very similar script "L" on dougk's Funk: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=227855#Post227855


It may be that the tube maker's marks after the steel type/bullet are similar.



Axel's Lovely Lovena - http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=227856#Post227856

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Otto:
Yes, the repair/reproof mark will accompany the original marks, typically on the replaced component. I'm not sure if a weapon was fitted with a new tube that the tube would wear the new weapon proof stamps while the frame would have a repair/reproof stamp. Whatever the alteration, it must have occurred in early 1945. There is a obscure/little known and infrequently implemented rule for tipping weapons with rimless(?) cartridges. If, if the caliber or bore cannot be located in the proof tables, and I assume this to include cartridges, then the stamp for the calibre dimensions is waved. All the above is based on me having the rule correct. The proofmaster had quite the discretion in this article. This rule took the cartridge shackles off the gunsmith and allowed him to take odd foreign orders for cartridges not found in the German domestic market. Maybe the fella in Stuttgart that ordered the 1000 rounds of 7X75R Vom Hofe SE ordered this stalker also. I don't know who else might have ammo for the longarm if indeed the bulk of sporting arms cartridges dropped off in 1942. Or with a higher probability, Walter Gehmann recognized that Ernst August Vom Hofe was on his deathbed and snuck a few 7x75R Vom Hofe SE examples out before WWII ended it all for everyone. Walter Gehmann may have decided to mount a takeover earlier but the end of WWII put a kink in his plans.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey. What do you mean by "copy the img code to post the image"?I assume that it refers to having the image appear in the reply instead of having a link to a web hosting service but I'm not familiar with IMG code.
What would be a common task on a barrel that would warrant a task stamp? Applying a rib? installing sights? The stamp looks like a v over J to me. I wonder if the stamp is task specific? Someones initials?
Otto

There's an IMG Code associated with the image and is on the bottom rung. Yes, it will just display the uploaded image.

A task would be like forging a tube from a billet or bar and possibly making the preliminary bore pass. Later maybe rifling and profiling. These stamps are there for mainly one reason: compensation and along with compensation comes liability. Attaching all the tube components may fall into that category but that may lie with the barrel knitter. These stamps are initials, pseudo trademarks, hallmarks, etc.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

There were just a few klans of weapons craftsmen with the last initial J: Jaeger, Jopp, J�lich, Jung & Just. I don't recall exactly what weapons making task A. & J. J�lich were centered around, but the rest knew tubes. I don't know the descendants of August Jopp but he hung out his shingle in 1850 and during this time the gunmaking community was a very tight-knit community with sourcing lines along those of marriage. Friedrich Jung too was founded in the 19th century & had heirs & assigns like Oskar & Hugo. Richard Jung was also in the mix and held a stake in Greifeldt, and they offered a similar model. From the get-go, Friedrich Greifeldt, Emil Schlegelmilch, Alfred Greifeldt, Oskar Jung along with Richard Jung were at the helm at some point at Greifeldt & Company from 1885 to WWII. Wilhelm Richard Jaeger was a tube maker and for now I attach a high probability of a "J" found on a tube to be associated with Jaeger. E. Just was also a tube maker in the 1930s.




Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey. Thank you for the additional information. I find the history of these old guns as enjoyable as shooting them.
I've shot the 7X75R in my rechambered drilling and loaded like a 7X57R it is both accurate and pleasant to shoot.
"The IMG code is on the bottom rung" The bottom rung of what? I thought that it might be on the web address of the picture but can't find it.
Otto

Otto:
Would you oblige us with some images of the dreil�ufer as well as the marks? If both of the longarms were altered pre-1946, then you may have cornered the market on 7X75R.

Under "Share This Photo" on Photobucket there should be 4 image choices:

Email & IM
Direct Link
HTML Code
IMG Code

Which one are you selecting to post the link?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse