doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com U.S. clay games - Why be different than the world?

I have a very good suggestion for you readers and the NASC. Pre-mount is allowed for c,d,e,& hunter shooters. Low mount is required for b-m shooters. Super sporting is always low mount. FITASC is FITASC and low mount. This simply solves the skill problem and attraction to the game problem, while encouraging development of advanced shooting skills.

Phil

Phil, just don't suggest that to a C Class International Skeet shooter.

MIKE,

First post on page 3, last paragraph (before "Flame away!). You said, "There is no excuse for pre-mounted sporting clays."

As for the excuse part, I prefer the term "reason". The reason being that every one of the top shooters in the game that I have seen shoot agree that it is faster on very quick crossers, or rabbits, etc., where you have a very short window. They, and I, also believe it eliminates the chance for a bad mount, which can cost a bird. One bird has separated 1st from also-ran many times, or at least eliminated a shoot-off. Digweed, Husthwaite, Kruger, McGuire, Miles, Matarese, Fennel, etc., all National and/or World Champions agree.

But, I guess you are better qualified than they to determine that "There is no excuse for pre-mounting in sporting clays".

You seem to believe that one can master the gun mount to the point that there is zero chance of a bad mount. Nearly impossible. Perfection is elusive, even in gun mounting. Top competitors strive for perfection. You also must've missed the part about all these shooters being the absolute best in the game at FITASC, a strict low-gun clays game. Just because we choose not to use low-gun when competing at Sporting doesn't mean we're not proficient at it. Just means we've found something better.

SRH

Maybe we can get to the bottom of this after all by addressing a couple of these points.

What, exactly, IS the "skill problem"?

And, do you REALLY believe that if NSCA said that C,D,E and Hunter classes HAD to compete low-gun they would show up in droves?

If everyone complaining about pre-mounted Sporting really believes that low-gun can be shot just as well, why don't they just do it, and prove to everyone that they are right?

SRH

Murph,

My comments were directed at the national association of sporting clays, not to international skeet shooters.

Phil

Stan,

You have misunderstood my post. Let me reiterate. I propose that c-h classes be allowed any mount. This would continue attract skeet, trap & games shooter to sporting.

The skill problem focuses on the fact that low mount is harder to master than pre-mount. The bio-mechanics of the shooter become much more important. Its kind of like hitting a 12" softball vs a fastball.

I do not want to scare less proficient shooters from the game. On the other hand, I want to encourage enhanced shooting skills, through the game.

Phil

I certainly don't let the mounted position in NSCA to interrupt my participation in their registered competitions. Dollar and a quarter birds, AA shooters in A Class, no one to shoot with, you name it. I made my decision to quit NSCA on many factors that have nothing to do with gun mount.

Thanks for the clarification, Phil. But, I still can't understand why you, and many others, consider this a problem. Absolutely, low gun is harder to master than pre-mount, I totally agree. But, what is the problem with that? Why do some think they need to dictate the skill level that they think others need? And, since we agree that low-gun is much harder to master, why would ALLOWING that attract trap and skeet shooters?

Again, why does the fact that serious competitors shoot pre-mount Sporting scare new shooters away? I haven't seen that to be the case in my 9-10 years of competition. New shooters almost universally adopt pre-mount once they try it (on their own, nobody telling them to) because it is sooooo much easier.

It just seems to me that low-gun advocates that are "anti premount" have a holier than thou attitude about it, and want the whole world to conform to their idea of what is best, and right. Not saying that is you, Phil, but there certainly is that type around, and they are very vocal.

SRH

Is it safe to assume that those who prefer the challenge of shooting premounted probably prefer T-Ball and Slow Pitch softball as well?

Skeet started as hunter prep, or warmup, or imprinting (giving the old snake brain a picture that it'll recognize without cogitation. I love that W. H. Foster illustration of the young man with the double looking back at the high house. Coiled like a snake, buddy. And if nothing flew, I guess he'd have been able to go on walking without looking like Elmer Fudd. Sometimes there's too much evolution. Too bad all that's left of the tradition is the "grousing". I got high house 8 a couple times starting butt in the armpit, safety on. Didn't make me holy as thee are nor a good shot and if I actually picked up a bird coming over that way I'd probably duck. Did make me happy. There is just a mere particle of a grain of truth in the thought that alongside all of us who can't master the "simplist target sport" there are others who by the available evidence mastered it only with the aid of a mounted gun. Shooting low gun may be a convenient excuse for mediocrity at the targets but it's also homage to the precursor sport. As for sporting, what will you do when the window between the trees is so small that you can't nail it 1 for 4 mounted? Will you be put off by the difficulty? Of course. But what shortcut will you adopt to assure competitive success. Get rid of the finger; make the message from the eye the trigger. That day is already here. It's called virtual reality.

jack