doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com U.S. clay games - Why be different than the world?

Approaching this topic from a different viewpoint, I think most Americans like to "Do Things Our Way!"

We currently have certain national politicians that are trying hard to copy Europeans in many ways - to what advantage I cannot fathom. We prefer our cars to trains; single family homes to large apartment projects, more space, less governmental controls, etc. On the whole, the Europeans seem "behind" us economically.

Let's keep our skeet and trap as they are. And let's not covert to metric measurements.

Having said all of the above, many Europeans are nevertheless very nice people.

JERRY

Very different, but very nice. We are what we are.

Mike The Bear and Mike campbell,

The point I was trying to make is that the game, as it began, could not sustain itself. There is just not enough income to be had from hunters (I inject hunters as being most of the shooters who would WANT a low gun game, since they constantly compare it to bird hunting) wanting to shoot occasional rounds of sporting, to sharpen their bird shooting skills, to make owning and operating a sporting clays course profitable. If there's no profit, there will soon be no club. Then, where will the bird hunters go to shoot?

"Live and let live" should be the mantra here, not constant decrying of the premount by those who don't like it.

And yes, MTB, I guess I AM a proponent of the premount, just as much as I am a proponent of low gun. If you'll reread my post on page 1 you will see that I said I would not be upset if the NSCA eliminated premounting. As long as we all play by the same rules I flat don't care.

Is it just jealousy, on the part of low gun advocates, that Sporting evolved into a game where premount is allowed? If so, why? Again, "Live, and let live". Your third paragraph at the top of page 3, MTB, does not convey that attitude at all, but rather a belief that premount shooters should go somewhere and create their own sport. No excuse for premount, REALLY?

SRH

Trap done the ATA way is more of a stamina contest than a skill competetion.
They shoot easy targets to exhaustion. If the same shooters were, say shooting Int'l Trap, very few would brake acceptable scores. Even fewer would ever have a chance of winning. They're just not good enough or aren't willing to shoot a much harder game.
Bad technique and lack of ability show up instantly and is not
rewarded. Unlike ATA, no amount of gun alteration or gimickry will
change that.
Mike Campbell would beat them all with a 12ga. Fox SxS shooting low gun and one shell.

I used to shoot competitive skeet at a pretty good level. The guys who taught me the sport on Okinawa included some legends of the game like Al Buntrock and Dick Rowden. I got away from the competitive aspect because I just couldn't afford it and my wife and kids. There are two aspects of skeet I found frustrating. First is the rules which includes so many alibis you need an attorney along to get the correct ruling. I think if the bird is thrown and there is no safety issue the shooter accepts the results period. If you gun is broke, your reloads don't go off or you let yourself be distracted - tough. Everyone would be on the same rules and run the same risk. Be a lot fewer perfect scores and shoot offs settled with a coin toss. The second aspect is why 4 guns? Settle on two guns with one of them being the .410. The other gun could be any gauge but limited to the 24gram shot load. Many shooters don't use the 12ga at all, shooting the 20 in that event and there is little difference between 20 and 28ga scores anyway. With two guns the new shooters will be more able to afford the guns needed to compete. The lighter recoiling load in the larger guns will enable more lightly built women and kids to compete head to head with the testosterone types. If you don't think so check and see who started winning in service rifle matches when the 5.56mm rifle became the gun at Camp Perry.

Mike nailed it with that one. Keeping "score" gives an incentive for people to find a way to increase their score.

Stan,

Where do I say "No excuse for premount"?

The "excuse" might be that everybody else does it and you get higher scores with it and besides the current rules allow it.

I'm only expressing an opinion that it eliminates the need for the mastery of the gun mount from the set of skills required of a truly top notch shotgun shooter.

I've seen Mike shoot and I agree.

I just had a vision of Digweed - I think I'm going blind.

You guys aren't gonna shut me up with the flattery.


I agree with this sentiment.



Seems to me that only FITASC emphasizes and promotes the skillful mount from low gun. I feel fortunate to have been attracted to it and had the opportunity to pursue it for a few years.

Playing that game awhile, even if you don't excel at it, pays dividends in every other claysport as well as wingshooting. Just the fact that you can be penalized for moving the hands before the eyes is a great incentive to hard visual and mental focus. You can spot someone with FITASC experience....they don't lurch and fall out of the stand or off the pad when they pull a broken target.

In a way it's kind of sad to watch some new shooters who are actually being taught by level III NSCA instructors to shoulder the gun, lift the head to see the target, then lay their head back on the stock, and sometimes start moving the gun at the sound of the trap. Some of these same instructors are very good shooters who first learned a proper mount with all its tangential benefits, then later adopted a "shortcut" method.

Can't argue that it promotes (a limited amount of)quick success, but I question the wisdom of starting new shooters with a shortcut rather than fundamentals.