doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com U.S. clay games - Why be different than the world?

Having no dog in any fight; I do think the 'any mount' rule was inevitable, advantageous, necessary & healthy for Sporting Clays to have acheived the phenominal growth it has experienced and there are a LOT of people who enjoy shooting in the NSCA sanctioned shoots as well as charity events or simply going out and shooting a new course for an afternoon or weekend. The numbers speak for themselves. The same numbers speak to why it is good to have that rule. Many of these same people do not hunt, they simply enjoy shooting or competition or the company of similar interests as we do here. NSCA is under the same umbrella as NSSA, but w/its own board. There are also many people who are simply skeet shooters, some compete in tournaments others do not. I would much rather have them shooting and enjoying it than not. If I'm shooting skeet w/a field gun I often do better with it just off my shoulder or slightly tucked in as Jack prefers when calling for the bird. Getting to the top of any shooting discipline requires desire, means, effort and time. It also helps to draw well. Better lucky than good, anytime;-) Hahaha. The top shooters make their own luck to some real extent by not making mistakes. Simple means and reasonable opportunity can make for a lot of fun.

Keep it safe.

Back to the question - US games, well, gun games anyway, are just wimpy for massaging easily bruised egos. I have a book written in the 30's that decries the shooters whining about the targets being too difficult and the practice of calling the pulls bad to avoid a difficult target (a practice only recently falling off due to the microphone releases many clubs use to cut costs). The current two-hole trap targets are the latest manifestation of the wimp. Ever wonder why the old trap machines even had five holes??? Pre-mounting is the least of the ills of US trap and skeet. The single biggest thing wrong with the games is the average based classification system, which sporting has adopted as an add-on as well as pre-mount. The adherence to the Holy Average is another sap for the delicate egos and is effectively meaningless. A simple cure would be a win based points system like most major sports, but we all know when that will happen.

rant off

Dr.WtS

The NPA, or normalized performance average, has not been "adopted" by the NSCA, sporting. It is being studied and discussed for a time before being discussed some more, and some more. I assume this is what you are referring to, Wonko. The vast majority of registered sporting shooters' opinions are that it will be voted down.

It isn't a means of massaging shooters' egos, either. Most examples that I have looked at would actually be bumped down a class. That wouldn't do much for their egos.

SRH

Jack, have no fear about a premature mount on station eight costing you a bird. The referee in the International Skeet game is not looking at the shooter on station eight. He is looking at the chute. A shooter can get away with a lot on this station, especially when the shooter is between the gun and the referee. The flankers don't get involved with gun mount violations.

Far as I'm concerned, only those who have mastered a game have any right to complain that it's too easy.

If you're not AA-27-A and shoot 400x400 regularly then shut up.

I get sick of blowhards. Pay your entry fee, play the purses, and learn to shoot under pressure to perform.

You can start with your gun in your truck as far as I'm concerned, and fetch it after you call for the target.

The 'any position' rule takes the judgement of a referee out of the game. The only thing that matters then is if the target breaks. It's an equalizer and it makes the shoot easier to run. If you don't like it, shoot something else.

Simple as that.

I really didn't mean for this to get into a 'mounted vs. low gun' debate. But rather that it seems we really don't have much of a integrated program to bring shooters to the international level of either trap or skeet. At the very least, I'd like to see an international type class at all the ATA and NSSA events. But, like WTS said "... but we all know when that will happen."

Other than the military shooting programs, there is no program that has brought up International shooters better than motivated shooters themselves. That's the way it works in FITASC. No "program" is getting shooters to sign up for FITASC events. The shooters make that decision. On a similar subject, no unmotivated shooter has ever been recruited for a military shooting team.

If you think perfection at a game where pre-pubescent female children can be perfect is some measure of judgmental capability then you really are in trouble. I don't have to master squat to realize that a game sucks. I can't speak to skeet since I'm not a skeet shooter (tho the endless perfect scores and shootoffs clearly indicate suck), but the ATA trap sucks mightily for many reasons (shared by skeet) and there is not doubt of that. And I don't shoot ATA trap anymore since my tolerance for incessant whining about the ______ (insert any reason for poor performance) and the near mind-numbing boredom of the targets. Won't be long before they only shoot straight aways from station 3.

I can cop to being a crappy shot and not suffer any but that does not hinder my assessment of ATA trap and US skeet as inferior, potentially sleep inducing games in a tournament setting. And the saddest aspect is that there is no reason for that to be the case.

Dr.WtS

In other words, you've accomplished nothing at even the simplest of target sports and thus trivialize the efforts of others who have to validate your inepitude.

Chuck: The simple reason and answer to your original question which I think you already know, is that it sells well.

That's what we do here in the good old US of A, we sell stuff.

Trap is the granddaddy of all the shotgun sports, being a featherless remnant of pigeon shooting adapted to the 'masses'.

We have masses here, and the tendency in this country is inclusion not exclusion in sports which the participants wish to grow (in order to sell more stuff).

Remington can be blamed for skeet, which was simply another way for them to sell their wares.

Wonko the Bane seems to think that if the family can play too it's not much of a game, but there's no arguing with the popularity of the sport and the register receipts.

You want something different, it's available.