doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com ITHACA ENGRAVERS AND OTHERS

Having just found the engraved signature of Bill McGraw on my newly acquired Ithaca SBT I was wondering about the practice of American engravers signing their work. I can't recall seeing any other signatures on my other engraved American doubles.
What is/was the practice for the American Classics??
Bob Jurewicz

Walt had a great article in the latest Double Gun Journal about McGraw.I had an Ithaca built EE Lefever 20 that was engraved by him but found no signature.Bobby

Ithaca did not want the engraver to sign their work. All engraving was considered generic. Bill McGraw started to sign in the late 1950s when Ithaca contracted with another engraver, Justin Michlina(sp?). Justin died during 1961 and Bill's signing seemed to stop after that. Bill had been engraving since 1907 and the contracting with another major engraver evidentially ticked Bill off. He started to discretely sign his work, all SBTs at that time, to distinguish his work from, quoting his notes, "That Spanish SOB." Bill was a mild mannered man but having another engraver seemed to upset him, understandably so I will add. Ralph Alpen also signed his work but not so discretely and that was part of the reason Bill Mains came into the picture. Bill Mains usually signed his work, all Knick SBTs.
I do have a signed Joe Loy Crass gun but have not seen any other signed Ithaca doubles either by him or any of the others e.g. Latham, Rogers, Runge, Clance or any one else.

Thanks Walt and Bobby!!!
Bob Jurewicz

Someone correct me if they think differently, but my impression is that in the Knick and NID era there was an initial engraving design, particularly for the Grades 4 and 5. The engravers, this meaning primarily McGraw, were told to adhere to those designs. Engravers subsequent to McGraw did not go back to the original designs for their guidance, but instead imitated the engraver before them. Some did a better job than others but over time the designs strayed more from the originals. I think that in the end even McGraw was imitating McGraw.

Anyway, I can well imagine that Bill got a little frosted when the new guys were being hired to imitate McGraw rather than duplicate the original designs.

I've noticed some differences in NID Grade 4E engraving. My 1941 vintage 16-gauge has less



than my 1936 12-gauge and 1933 20-gauge.



Also, in his book, Walter shows pictures on page 85 of a 4E with an oval with a bird on the bottom of the frame, which is much nicer than the floral work on mine, and as was pictured in the catalogues from 1926 to 34.



You'll notice in the catalogue cut the wedge of floral engraving flows back from the forearm iron while on my 1941 gun it flows foreward from the trigger plate.

As is life, the engravers responded to the money alloted to them. Ithaca engraving changed significantly in the 1915/16 era. Again there is a major change between the $2000 grade Knicks/M-37s and the $2500 grades of both. It was a money thing. Nothing new here. The engravers were very skilled but had to produce to the buck. I am sure other companies were in the same situation. Sad but true and true today as well.

It is a rare find to have an early American shotgun signed by the engraver. There are a scant few Parkers with "H. Gough" very discreetly engraved in well hidden places.

Surprised no one has mentioned high grade A. H. Fox doubles (not sure about the SBT) being signed or initialed "W.H.G." - William H. Gough.

Jolly

Have Bakers signed Frank Mason, L C Smith signed Glahn, and Schaefer signed LDN for Nimschke.