doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Win 21 Grand Royal

He being Tony Galazan sold out to Andy and that was the only matting machine. It is now owned by Gary Donovan of The Gun Works of Central New York.

Don: My source was the Olin licensing department who said there was no such license. Another member of this forum contacted them as well and was given the same information....however, you and Gunflint Charlie can choose to believe whatever you want and if you choose to buy the 'over the top Grand Royal' or any other Model 21 that doesen't 'letter' with Cody, then I think you should do just that and wish you good luck.

Buzzy, I don't think you should assume how little you think that I know about Model 21s.

""The Fox gun debuted in 1994, about the same time the ambitious Galazan was negotiating with USRAC to buy the Winchester Custom Shop -- lock, stock and barrel. The deal went through in 1996, with Galazan purchasing all parts and inventory along with the right to make a limited number of high-grade guns and to perform repairs. And with that, the Winchester Model 21 was reborn, albeit quietly and only in the highest grades. Also, due to the vagaries of the business agreement between USRAC and CSMC, new M-21s bearing the Winchester name were expensive -- beginning at an astounding $50,000,for Grand American-and-above-quality guns. This effectively put them out of reach for all but the wealthiest collectors.

... Arriving last year to fill the gap between rising demand for old 21s and the staggering prices of new Winchester Custom Shop guns were CSMC's new M-21s. These new guns begin at about $10,000 for a Grade 21-1 and climb from there. Though this is hardly inexpensive, new 21s remain approachable by a far larger segment of the shooting community than would a new Custom Shop version. (New Winchester-marked 21s will still be available, although Galazan is keen to stress that CSMC 21s "have nothing to do with the Winchester Custom Shop.")"

That is exactly how I understand the history. Tony personally offered me a 'Grand Royal' at $55K. Whether Tony has a license still active at this time or is using the former agreements is unknown to me but what does it really matter?
If you want a new Winchester branded Model 21, there is only one that I know of. If you want a new Model 21, then its still made by CSMC and at this point in time, I see absolutely no difference except the word Winchester on the Model 21.
-Dick

You guys are just kidding yourselves. I suspect some of you already own counterfeited Winchester Model 21s which do not letter with Cody because it is pretty easy to get fooled out there.

Buzz, it must be exciting to live in your version of reality, a world in which all my $50K+ "Winchester" M-21s are "counterfeited" -- along with those owned by countless other careless buyers.

Regarding Cody letter, you apparently missed my earlier post about Galazan's work on Winchester-made M-21s in their capacity as the Winchester Custom Shop. In 2003 they custom restocked, reblued and opened the chokes on my 1950's era M-21. Those modifications are on record with Cody, included in the letter I obtained in 2004. Not kidding myself about that Buzz. And not kidding you.

Pauline -

Interesting that you mention Andy W.'s purchase from Galazan's. In 2003 when I was looking into options for my M-21 custom work, Andy brought up that purchase in a phone conversation with me. He said when he bought the M-21 stuff, he understood Galazan's intended to give up their official Winchester Custom Shop work on M-21s. Andy had some uncomplimentary things to say about Tony continuing to operate as the Win Custom Shop thereafter.

Jay

Andy bought 90% of what Galazan had. I know he was very angry that Tony continued to advertise in the Gun List as having all parts and fixtures from the Custom Shop even after Andy's purchase went through. I do know he went as far as approaching the Gun List about false advertising on Galazan's part, as Galazan continued to run this ad for a very long time. Andy ended up posting his own ads stating his purchase as the Gun List refused to police any of their ads. Why Tony continued to advertise "all parts, fixtures and machinery" after selling the stuff, I have no idea. It does seem a little strange to me.

I have no opinion about any of this, but I would still like to know how Tony and Simmons continue to produce ribs with the Winchester matting pattern when the gun shop in New York has the only Winchester matting machine.

Simmons is also now offering solid ribs. I would contact Simmons and ask them directly. I know Gary Donovan is doing matting on the Winchester machine. I don't believe he is doing any work for either Simmons or Galazan. Technology today is so advanced who knows what they came up with. Put in a call and see.