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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 Likes: 1 |
Since the original question was which company produced the most SxSs shotguns this IMO would be the Meridian/Aubrey Companies. They produced uncountable thousands marketed under a multitude of brand names. Jim
The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 279 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 279 Likes: 9 |
As for the 'high end' guns, don't forget the Lefever Optimus, $1,000 Grade and 'Uncle Dan' Grade. There were only 17(?) Smith A-3s made, but I am quite sure that way more Optimus Grades were made.
GMC(SW) - USN, Retired (1978-2001)
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190 Likes: 15 |
There are only 17 A-3 Grade Smith guns recorded in Brophy's serial number recap; but I've seen two other authentic A-3 Grade Smith guns not included in any grades recap, and I'm sure there are a few others. But you are not talking "apples to apples" as the A-3 Smith was a $750 gun at retail; whereas the LeFever Optimus was a $400 gun at retail. Now although the LeFever Optimus was one heck of a high-grade gun, the LC Smith A-2 was also a $400 gun at retail ($425 w/Hunter One-trigger); more than 200 A-2 Grade LC Smith guns have been recorded in various serial number recaps, and I've seen several other authentic A-2 Grade Smith guns whose serial numbers are not in any recap to include a unique A-2 to be featured in a future issue of the DGJ. And although the Lefever Optimus Grade was made for several years prior to the A-2 Grade Smith, and for several years after the A-2 Grade was discontinued; Lefever still did not produce more Optimus Grade guns that Hunter Arms produced A-2 Grade Smiths.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,573 Likes: 165
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,573 Likes: 165 |
I've never seen a count on Stevens doubles and all their aliases (Eastern Arms, Central Arms, etc), and most of those guns didn't have a SN--so you can't count that way. But I'd say it'd be a tight race between Savage/Stevens and Folsom. I think Aubrey/Meriden went out of business too early, although they certainly made a bunch.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
I seriously doubt we have enough production figures available on the low end guns to ever arrive at a positive answer. It would however take a lot of evidence to the contrar to convince me that question #1 was any Co other than Stevens(Savage) or Folsum.
I would also agree that #2 is most likely L C Smith. Based on total production of guns produced I highly suspect that Lefever had a higher % of their total as high end than any other US Co.
Remember that in total production Smith built some 7 times more guns than did Lefever. I don't think they built 7 times more high end ones though.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,948 Likes: 144
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,948 Likes: 144 |
Adding to what DrDrew stated, Ithaca made about 450000 Ithaca doubles, 237000 Lefever Nitro Specials, and 65000 Western Arms Long Range Doubles.
They made eleven Sousa Special/$1000 Grade NID models, but I've never seen a number on how many Flues Sousa Specials were built. The retail list price of a NID Sousa Special started out at $750 in 1926, with the price to dealer of $625. By 1936 it was $812.50 and $687.50. By the Fall 1937 Ithaca Retail Catalogue it had become the $1000 Grade. I don't have Dealer Prices for 1937, but by 1938 it was $847.46. In January 1946 it was still the $1000 Grade at $1029 and $906.44 Dealer price. By July 1, 1946, it has become the $1500 Grade with a list price of $1587.14 and a Dealer Price of $1190.65. By November 15, 1946, it is the $1700 Grade and the list price is $1745.85 with a Dealers Price of $1309.72.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Meriden only produced about 79,000 sxs guns under their own name. They also produced the Berkshire which was sold through Sears. The serial numbers of the Berkshire appear to fall in with the Meriden, however, I have recorded too few to be sure. I keep waiting to find a Meriden and a Berkshire with the same serial number. They never produced a boxlock, at least not that I can verify. It is unclear how many pistols or rifles they produced. I have never seen even a guess at production numbers. I do know their pistols keep showing up under various names, even Smith and Wesson was marketing them. As far as high end guns. Meriden did offer some, but nothing close to the Parkers, Lefevers, Ithacas etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meriden_Firearms_Co.http://www.meridenfirearms.com/http://www.damascus-barrels.com/Aubrey.htmlI have no doubt that Crescent is the hands down leader in terms of shear numbers of shotguns. With the current "brand interest" (LC Smith, Fox, Lefever, Baker, Parker sites) It would be interesting to get some of the "specialists" to speculate about custom builds and the accuracy of serial number lists. Pete
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,854 Likes: 118
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,854 Likes: 118 |
Pre 1913 L.C. Smiths from Grade 5 up were special order only. That might even include the A1 grade which was below the 5 and was only made for 6 years, 1892-1898.
David
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