doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com I want a clunker....

I have a Hunter Special in 16ga. that I'm quite fond of, so I can strongly recommend that 12ga you saw. Not a huge number of those guns were made.

Why are so many pointing you toward a Fox? Several reasons, though some here may not agree.

Foxes, A.H. Foxes that is, are very close to, if not the, simplest boxlock ever built. Less internal parts, those parts being made from excellent steel and properly hardened. Less parts to begin with, coupled with a nearly perfect mechanism means high reliability. I've been shooting them for many years and never had one to fail me.

Stock dimensions on Foxes seem to be a bit "better", according to what most modern-day shooters want, than many other classic brands. L. C. Smith, for example, is a fine double, but I have a heck of a time finding them, in the condition I like, without excessive drop at heel.

Thirdly, there never has been a more elegant design for a boxlock receiver built, IMO. The Sterlingworth, which was the lowest grade Fox built, has an unadorned beauty that no other boxlock can boast of. Many of the examples of graded Foxes are absolutely stunning.

Fourthly, the internal parts in a Sterlingworth are just as well made and fitted as those in a high grade Fox. And that does not mean that the graded ones were neglected inside, just that no shortcuts were taken on the inner workings of the lowest grade Fox.

Lastly, there a lots of 'em around. If you've never seen a A. H. Fox and shot one, you're in for a treat, and an eye-opening experience.

Well, that's a start.

Good luck, Stan

Just keep looking. I just got a 1927 LC Smith with ejectors and a three position safety for $350! All it really needed was elbow grease. Acraglas in the stock and tru-oil on the wood. A few hours and maybe $100 bucks later it is a nice piece.
CHAZ

I never saw, held, or shot a Fox either but I've done my share of Elsies, Ithacas, Winchesters, and Remingtons. My preference is definately my 1900 Remington and my 1889 Remington. For some reason they fit me like a pair of White's boots. Each to his own I guess. I don't have a gun safe queen and never will. What good is it if you don't shoot it? My shotguns are tools that I take care of, use, and enjoy.

I guess Stan likes Foxes! That said, the "nearly perfect" mechanism in a Fox has a flaw-as the gun gets old and develops a bit of wear, they will have a tendancy to striker bind. The gun becomes difficult to open after the shot. It will need to be seen by a good gunsmith at that point.
No, I don't hate Foxes, by the way. But, I'm jaded and pragmatic about what it takes to keep old American doubles running, and they all have their warts, some of which have become glaring as the years go by.
I'd still seek out a Western Arms gun. You can take John Robert's advice and keep saving for something better, while learning how to handle a double, and how well the design appeals to you-they aren't for everybody, and plenty of folks find that out AFTER they have coughed up long dollars for an example of American double gunmaking. If the stars are really out to get you that day, you might discover your new pride and joy needs some expensive repairs. It happens.
Good luck with your quest, and let us know what you find.

Best,
Ted

I own or have owned most of the American guns mentioned, and have shot and hunted with all of them. I am partial to LC Smiths, but they can have stock issues that may cause problems for the inexperienced. The Fox Sterlingworth and the Ithaca NID are probably the two best choices for what you want. The biggest thing that both have going for them is that they were designed later than the others, so are strong and more likely to have more modern stock dimensions. The NID is probably not quite as elegant as the Foxes, but is plenty strong enough for modern off the shelf ammo because they were all built after the change in the pressure specifications in the 1920's. The LC Smith, the Fox and the NID all have the rotary bolt breech lock up which I have never see shoot loose, and the NID's are probably to be found at the lowest price of the three.

Why the Fox? McIntosh wrote a book about that. I'll just say a strong, compact design that wears well. Enough made that you can usually find the variation you want.

It appears to me that the point is being missed. The original poster says he wants a "clunker" (later amended to a "beater" so as not to offend). He already has an NID (a nice gun), so why point him toward a Fox, Smith or Parker, which would be on par with the gun he already has (or possibly better as they go up in grade)?

That Hunter Arms, a Western Arms, or a Nitro Special would seem to be the obvious choices in a "step-down" American double. Or my personal favorite, a nice old Stevens 5100.

I vote "Nitro Special." What is not to like?

I recently saw an original condition Meriden (Crescent) sidelock 12 in excellent mechanical shape with excellent bores, 50% case colors and modern dimensions recently for way less than $300. They are out there.