doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Lightning Powder by Hercules

Thanks I have the Roberts article, Newton's stuff always scares me a little.

If an when I use Lightning I think around 20-grains would be a good place to start and see what happens, if anything.

I used on low side 17grs of 4759 up to 38grs of H-380 with bullets from 75-87grs.

I just need more range time and less work on the yard time ;-).

I hope you can read this, chronograph of Niedner's big 25-Krag with the long case. 48gr Lightning for 3330fps.

Found this, very interesting, my readings were not to far off.

http://kwk.us/cases.html

I found an interesting description of Lightning powder in Narramore's book "Principles and Practice of Loading Ammunition". Quote, in part:

"The tolerance [for pressure] is rather narrow for a double-base powder and is intended for regular jacketed bullet loads in medium cartridges of the .30-30 class.

...It's balance point is somewhere around 30,000psi, and it should not be used in charges developing over 40,000psi. It can be used with gas-checked bullets in the larger cartridges, in fact, it is the best gas-check bullet powder there is for 500 yard loads in the .30-06. Lightning is not a satisfactory powder for most small cartridges nor is it particularly good with plain-base bullets. The powder is still being made for the ammunition industry but is not being put out in canisters at the present [1954]."

He lists some loads for .25's as follows:
.25-35, 117 gr. bullet, 17.7gr.
.250-3000, 100gr. bullet, 23.5gr.
.257 Roberts, 87gr., 31.2gr. 100gr., 29.4gr.
Several other loads are listed for cast lead bullets. If interested, PM me.
No velocities listed for any of his charge recommendations.
Seating depths and OALs are listed however. If interested, PM me.

Sharpe, as you probably know, describes two different Lightning powders in his treatise, Lightning #1 and Lightning #2, with detailed physical descriptions. Which do you have? Some of his data:
.250-3000, 87gr., 29.9gr.=3000fps, 44,000(?- no unit of measure)
.25 Krag- nothing
.25/06 Niedner- nothing
.25 G&H and Niedner-Roberts- nothing
.257 Roberts, 87gr., 21.0gr.= 2165fps
29.0gr.= 2820fps, 36,000(?)
33.2gr.= 3160fps, 50,000(?)!
100gr.,19.0gr.= 1950fps
26.0gr.= 2445fps, 31,400(?)
31.3gr.= 2830fps, 50,000(?)!
Again all loads with jacketed bullets. I can look up cast loads if needed.
He notes that all of the above loads for Lightning were recommended by the Hercules powder company.

I always got the impression that Narramore operated on the conservative side of things. Sharpe, not so much.

Hope this helps.
Gary

Gary,

Thanks for taking the time to post this. All interesting stuff,

I'm still looking through my library for what the powder company recommended but with little luck.

Richard,

I think the reference you are looking for is in 'The American Rifle" by Whelen Page 326-328 regarding the corrosive effects of Lightning powder.

If that's the one you might then skip over to page 398 "The Mann-Niedner Chamber" and read why I would use it in this rifle.

I don't know which is worse, you with only a few months of shooting time and only a few months of yard work time, or me with LOTS of both, to the point where I don't even bother to even TRY to go to the range during the 4 months from Memorial Day to Columbus Day 'cause it's just too durn HOT!

Been mowing and weedeating for more than 2 months now with no end in sight 'til Halloween. The grass cutting wouldn't be so bad if My Heart Doctor hadn't ordered me to do all the mowing with a little-wheel push mower....

I'm eagerly awaiting your results, I've always liked the 25 Krag in its various forms.
Regards, Joe

Even though the range is 30 miles away there is a airport just a few hundred yards away from it. I can log on the weather at the airport and check the wind and temp and if bad I stay home.

I made some longer base-bands at .180" the ones I been making are .100" with the case OAL of 2.265". I also trimmed a case to 2.220" and with the longer BB it's a jam fit. The Sierra 75's will also chamber.

I've been playing with other Mann-Niedner 25's for some time now and this barrel is dated 1909, the earliest one I have access to.

Here is a picture of an identical barrel at Walnut Hill, the only difference is my barrel is also marked "F.W. Mann".

Went a little better this morning at the range.

First one on a cold clean barrel a little high the next four OK. This is still at only 50-yards.

Tried some 87 grain with a longer BB, shot two groups both had one flier 4@.590 and 5@1.6, 4@.680 and 5@1.65.

I then tried some Speer 75's and shot two groups with them, shows some promise.



Move out to 100-yards, got on the paper fired one group a tad over an inch at 1.080". Wind started kicking up so played with a 1903.

I need a goal so I'll know it's time to move on to something else.

How big is an East coast Woodchuck? Lets' say I need to keep every shot on a Woodchuck at 200 yards, what group size would that be?