Thank you, ben-T. I agree with all you said. I never could figure out either why it is a crime for the people who actual make the product to have a fair wage, while those that take Thurs. afternoons to the country club seem to write their own check. This white/blue collar thing is a marriage out of necessity. The people who can sell, design and engineer, know what needs to be done to get their product to market, but really don't have the desire to work in a dirty, hot shop with overtime required to make a good wage. Like wise, many of those in the shop would much rather just hit the time clock and be happy to manufacture what those in the office don't want to do. Neither can be effective without the other. They need each other. It sure appears to me, that the owners overseas are happy to make am income at a certain percentage over construction cost. If they look to the U.S. market the foreign makers can sell their products at an actual inflated price because of those in high U.S. manufacture management have tacked on higher price to their product to insure a higher income for themselves. Remember, I said High manufacture management. In the '70's to early '80's, when I worked in a union machine shop, I remember very well the average white collar was always quietly cheering for those in the shop. If we got a raise, so did they. On the over time idea. Now you know what is wrong America. I remember working 55+ hours a week, day in and day out. Right before one of the layoffs, we went to 40hrs. I thought I was on vacation! Children and marriages suffer when one of the spouses is home only long enough to mow the lawn. I just remembered, what ever happened to COLA?