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Mar 28th, 2026
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 266 |
I am trying to solve an interesting problem. I have a Mortimer and Son breechloading double rifle that has a serial number in the 24000 range. The serial number is on the barrels. No other serial number was found on the rifle. It is in very fine original condition. I contacted Dickson & Son (who hold the Mortimer records) to find out if they have any information on it. They said that all Mortimer guns had 4 digit serial numbers and they were on the trigger guard. I am sure that the rifle has not been refinished as it has beautiful engraving that is sharp and with some case colors remaining visible. The gentleman from Dickson's said that another maker such as W. C. Scott supplied Mortimer with a barreled action that was then finished at Mortimer's shop. The rifle is best quality with mint bores. A W. C. Scott gun in the 24000 serial number range would put it about 1883. Does anybody have any thoughts or additional information about this oddity.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 496 |
LD1
There must be another number on the gun which isn't immediately visible. The Mortimer Gunmakers book lists the highest serial number as 8029, made in 1942. All numbers listed have four digits per the fellow at Dickson. He is also undoubtedly correct that the basic bits came from W & C. Scott.
Best, Kensal
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 266
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 266 |
Kensal, I have looked the rifle over very carefully. I could find no other numbers visible. The rifle overall is in VERY fine original condition and of the best quality. It has rebounding hammers. Here is a picture of the left side of the rifle: 
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 496 |
LD1:
Your rifle seems like a fine piece. And it may, indeed, have no number. However, I'm willing to bet that basic disassembly will reveal a four-digit number somewhere, and on a number of parts. The reason for such a number was to keep the gun's bits organised and together during build up -- as well as to record the piece in company archives. Otherwise, your original guess of 1883 or so seems not out of reason.
Best, Kensal
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 790 Likes: 47
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 790 Likes: 47 |
LD1:
Although your rifle is undoubtedly in excellent condition and a very nice piece, the engraving shown in your picture does not speak very high quality.
Given the indication of 1883, I would have expected a Mortimer & Son double rifle to display very best engraving if it was a gun made, or finished, in house.
I suspect therefore that the chap from Dickson's was quite correct to say that the gun came from Scott and I have seen many guns from this source which were supplied fully engraved and ready for sale with no 'maker's number other than Scott's number on the barrel.
Only in guns made in-house, generally by the better makers, have I found the gun number on all internal parts, rarely in guns sold fully finished as this one may well have been.
Never say never, but I think you are right in saying there are no internal numbers.
Anyway, enjoy the gun for what it is!
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 496 |
LD1 & Toby:
Alas, Toby may be correct here. I just checked my 12-bore Mortimer, No. 720X, made in 1888, and see only one spot where a serial number appears -- the guard tang. The barrels carry a 5-digit number and there are a few other numbers here and there, but NOT the serial number. My internal pics do not show one either.
The gun may well have been completely made at Scott's... including the Mortimer name engraved on the sideplates. As Toby says, enjoy it for what it is!
Best, Kensal
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 266
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 266 |
Guys,
I was reading the book on Mortimer gunmakers yesterday and and during my reading I came across a paragraph that said that for some unexplained reason some Mortimer guns were not given serial numbers. It stated that there seemed to be no rhyme or reason for it. Standard and up to and including best quality guns have been found with no serial number.
Kensal,
Since you found a number on the barrels, could you look that number up in W. C. Scott's record to see if the build date matches the date for the serial number put on by Mortimer. If it does that would indicate that the barrels (at least) were made by Scotts.
Larry
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 496
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 496 |
Larry:
I'm afraid this is little help. The number on my 12-bore's barrels is 23947; that lines up with 1878 in Dallas's Scott list. But my gun was made in 1888 by Mortimer records. Not to say the barrels weren't made a decade earlier. So... guess from there.
Best Kensal
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