|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics39,492
Posts562,047
Members14,585
| |
Most Online9,918
Jul 28th, 2025
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460 |
Lots of mention of choke here, but only Cylinder, Modified and Full Sport with Gun and Rod in American Woods and Waters by Alfred Marshall Mayer in 1883http://books.google.com/books?id=IJcCAAAAYAAJ&q=choke#v=snippet&q=choke&f=false Found this reference to Full and Modified choke in the 1884 edition of The American Sportsman: Containing Hints to Sportsman, Notes on Shooting on p. 465 http://books.google.com/books?id=TYFCAAAAIAAJ&q=choke#v=snippet&q=choke&f=false Again, only Full, Modified, and Cylinder in 1895 The Art of Wing Shooting: A Practical Treatise on the Use of the Shotgun by William Bruce Leffingwell http://books.google.com/books?id=e34EmE3...p;q&f=false Doubles listed in the 1908 Sears catalog, including Aubrey, Baker, Remington, Smith and Ithaca, reference only “Choke Bore.” "Improved Cylinder" IS used on p. 465 in American Game-bird Shooting by George Bird Grinnell in 1910http://books.google.com/books?id=bZcyAAAAMAAJ&q=choke#v=snippet&q=choke&f=false So who, presumably in the U.S. (as in England the constriction of .010 would be "Quarter Choke"), named "Improved Cylinder", and when??
Last edited by Drew Hause; 04/18/11 07:19 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1 |
I am glad to be here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Actually I think it was the British, but can't put an actual parson/Company or date on it. It was as the name implied an "Improved Cylinder, meant to give nearly the spread of a cylinder bore but elimanate the problems associated with a true cylinder with the older shells. The IC as originated had a constriction of .005"-.006".
Americans for the most part did bore their bbls to Ľ choke, but stamped them IC. I think that extremely few true IC bbls have been bored in the US.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460 |
Here's what W.W. had to say in The Gun and Its Development 8th Edition 1907 http://books.google.com/books?id=3HMCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA416 The various degrees of choking may be classified as: Full-choke, which, with a 12-gauge gun, standard load, distance and conditions will make an average pattern of 215 pellets The half-choke (same conditions) ... 185 The quarter-choke... 160 The improved cylinder... 140 The old cylinder…115 Any better average shooting than 215 may be termed an extra full-choke; the improved cylinder is a barrel very slightly choked.
Last edited by Drew Hause; 04/19/11 12:30 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 19
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 19 |
My 1905 Parker has a .005 right barrel choke from the factory. I've heard of a number of similar choke Parkers.i
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1 |
My Parker O frame right barrel choke is 0.008" and tapers all the way to the muzzle. The left 0.012" and tapers all the way to the muzzle.
Best,
Mike
I am glad to be here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 165
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 165 |
We need to remember that the constriction required for what we choose to call IC becomes progressively smaller in the smaller bore guns.
With modern loads, it's pretty tough to improve on cylinder for close range shooting. One can certainly shoot skeet quite effectively with no choke and standard skeet loads, at least down to the 20ga.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 19
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 19 |
Larry,
My right barrel on a NID .410 is cylinder and reliably breaks skeet birds as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,447 Likes: 278
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,447 Likes: 278 |
For my friend, Drew Hause. On August 11, 1904, A.S. Birdsong ordered a D Grade 20 gauge Parker with 29" Titanic Steel barrels bored "Improved Cylinder and Three Quarter" chokes. The serial number is 128,592. This is the first mention of improved cylinder I have found. It shouldn't be a hard gun to identify if you run across it at a gun show. In my opinion, the customer named this choke because Parker Brothers did not normally use this terminology. Bill Murphy
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460 |
Thank you Bill and everyone. I should 'fess up that this investigation started when I was asked to help with a short story regarding a famous pigeon shooter ordering two No. 4 Smiths in 1906, and if "Improved Cylinder" was part of the choke nomenclature of that era. And indeed it was 
|
|
|
|
|
