doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Win 21 Grand Royal

I believe you are in error.
USRAC purchased the Winchster Plant from Olin and licensed the Winchester name in the 1980's. FN had no interest at that time that I know of.
The best I can figure is that USRAC decided that for whatever reason, money, management, that it could not finish the Model 21 orders that it had in house. At the end of Schwing's book he alludes to this with a statement issued by USRAC in 1990, " we are not accepting new orders" for a variety of reason listed. That coincides with the time frame that Tony personally told me in a face to face conversation that he had purchased the Model 21 tooling from USRAC.
After USRAC ceased, the entire former Winchester Plant was auctioned off and some years later FN got the rights to use the Winchester name on forearms produced in a totally different facility.-Dick

In any event whether the current 'Grand Royal' listed by CSMC was produced from an already existing Winchester branded gun or from a license from Olin, it is advertised as a Winchester Model 21 and not a Model 21.

Thanks dick dup for straightening this question out for us. Paulene Muerrle would unequivocally KNOW for sure!

Dick,
Not my info, but wikipedia has USRAC formation in 1981 and going bankrupt in 1989, and taken over by FN at that time.

So, if Ms. Muerrle is correct, is this over-the-top Winchester Model 21 Grand Royal that CSMC has advertised a non-authentic Winchester---and thus a fake?

If that is correct, then the timing would explain why the tooling for the Model 21 was sold and why USRAC(FN) may have wanted to get out of the Model 21 business.

As to your question "So, if Ms. Muerrle is correct, is this over-the-top Winchester Model 21 Grand Royal that CSMC has advertised a non-authentic Winchester---and thus a fake?"

This certainly is not a Winchester Grand Royal manufactured by The Custom Shop whether operated under the Winchester or USRAC management. The rest is up to your interpretation.-Dick

Seems to me that it takes a lot of lawyering to get that stamp on top of the barrel(s).

Here guys as if it wasn't confusing enough!!


"In 1992 the French company GIAT (who also owned Browning) purchased USRAC, and in 1997 control of both USRAC and Browning were sold to the Walloon region of Belgium (home of FN). The corporate offices of both Browning and USRAC are now located in Morgan, Utah in the U.S.A. Unfortunately, in March 2006 the Winchester/USRAC plant in in the U.S. was closed as unprofitable. This brought production of Model 70 (and Model 94) rifles to an end, and the Belgian owners have stated that they have no intention of establishing Model 70 production elsewhere.

The Model 70 was ultimately undone because it was too expensive to produce, not because the cheaper rifles that have replaced it are better. Through all the changes, the Winchester Model 70 remained a quality firearm, and an international legend. It still deserves the title, "The Rifleman's Rifle."

In an article written by Chuck Hawks

On March 31, 2006 U.S. Repeating Arms closed the New Haven, Conn. plant where Winchester rifles and shotguns were produced for 140 years. This resulted in hiatus of the production of the Winchester Model 70 rifle and Winchester Model 1300 pump action shotgun and the end of the Model 94 lever action rifle. Other Winchester models however, are still produced in other regions such as Asia and Europe.

On August 15, 2006, Olin Corporation, owner of the Winchester trademarks, announced that it had entered into a new license agreement with Browning to make Winchester brand rifles and shotguns, though not at the closed Winchester plant in New Haven. Browning, based in Morgan, Utah, and the former licensee, U.S. Repeating Arms Company, are both subsidiaries of FN Herstal.

In October, 2007, FN HerstalFabrique Nationale de HerstalFabrique Nationale d'Herstal � self identified as FN Herstal and often referred to as Fabrique Nationale or simply FN � is a firearms manufacturer located in Herstal, Belgium announced that it would produce Pre-'64 Winchester Model 70 rifles at its facility in Columbia, South Carolina.

It does appear that CSM has a license to manufacture the Model 21, but not with the stamps.

It's also quite possible that CSM doesn't need nor have a licensing agreement to build his 21 guns. Patents, if any are in the 21, would have run out long ago. I bet much of the 21 manufacture that CSM does is to their own drawings and specs now, since many are small gauge with CSM's scaled frames.

The countless Colt 1911 copies are an example.

When the M21 job was sold I was asked by one of the bidders to come up to the old Custom Shop to identify numerous things. The place looked like a hurricane hit it. It was supposed to be locked up after the Custom Shop moved across the street but obviously there were looters. The majority of the fixtures and gages were stored on the floor above the Custom Shop along with M21 parts in numerous stages of operation. The bulk of these were untouched. Tony Galazan ended up with the highest bid and everything left went to New Britain to a storage facility. Andy Wojtowycz of the now defunct Andy's Custom Shop bought the rib matting machine, all jigs fixtures and many gages, along with numerous parts. No frames of any kind were included in the original sale to Tony for legal reasons. The fixtures, jigs and gages were virtually useless to anyone for manufacture because they were from another manufacturing era. Remember that Winchester basically produced all the M21 parts they needed decades before. Unlike manufacturing today, each fixture was for an individual operation. I doubt very much that Tony or anyone for that matter would have used the equipment that was left for anything more than a souveneir or a boat anchor.

Welcome Pauline!

Very nice of you to stop by and share your unique perspective.