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Raimey, correspondence between Baker Gun and Forging Co. and Rudolph Kornbrath indicates that Adolph worked for Baker circa 1908. The correspondence is dated around 1913, a bit after Adolph started selling his wonderful guns. Baker Gun and Forging had fired Adolph after he ruined several stocks. It was suggested that since Kornbrath was doing work for Adolph at the 1913 period, that Kornbrath may want to tease Adolph if the time were right. Baker admitted at that time that Adolph was turning out superb guns. I do not know of a connection between Ithaca and Adolph, but Walt Snyder might have an Idea.

On the Adolph over under, I have a copy of a letter where Adolph was soliciting Sedgley about making his over under design. He had previously solicited Savage, as I recall. It was a unique design and I think it may have been covered in Double Gun Journal. I saw an example for sale some years ago. It was unengraved.

On your other question about Bob Owen, I do think that Owen started his gunmaking just after 1920, so he's predated a bit by Flues, Kornbrath, and Adolph. It would be wonderful to know the whole story of all the interrelationships.

The Fred Adolph as noted at Baker seems to resemble the true picture of Adolph as a mechanic. He seems to tout his credentials but I'd like to check his references. In the 1920s writers hint to the fact that Fred Adolph has some master engraver/gunsmith holed up at his facility and they considered the subcontracting work to be one in the same as Adolph's. At one time he may have been a whale of a craftsmen, but it seems he was more of a used car salesman and firearms merchant that anything else. I would say that I view Adolph much like Axel E. holds H.A. Lindner in regard; more of a sourcing agent and firearms merchant than anything else.

Let's throw Singer of LA into the mix also.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, Adolph seems to have been a fine stocker and carver. I do not think he did metal work to any extent. Much of his work was engraved by Kornbrath here, but I think some was engraved overseas at the sources of his guns. Griefelt pictures in their catalog a sister gun to one I have marked Adolph with Hiawatha engravings and inlays. I think the records show that Adolph stocked guns for Griffin and Howe circa 1924, at a time when his gun business was faltered.

Agree on Singer sourcing in a similar way.

Anyone know when the Petrik OU first appeared? It's my understanding he was a Czech expat making guns in France. I believe it was not until post-WWI. The Petrik OU's obviously had a very strong influence on the Remington 32.

Thanks for all the effort. Is there an authority on post WWII American scattergun fabricators or are you that person? So sort of circling back from a series of tangents to the thread, what would constitute an American made longarm and is there a line drawn between sourcing components, sourcing longarms in the white or just going for the full monty and having your name roll stamped on the top rib. Top firearms merchants on the continent, and I'm sure on the little British Isles also, had been doing it for some time so in the 20th century was it commonplace for American craftsmen/firearms merchants to do the same?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Yeah, that Petrik may have some similarities:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post204175

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post151579

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey and Daryl,
I am impressed and humbled by your research and carefully worded responces,
That being said, the reason I chose to respond to this thread was only to say that after Adolph croaked Ithaca Engraving Company claimed he still owed a large sum of money along with several other similar claims. Until I read this, I had no idea there was an "Ithaca Engraving Company".
I have some exhaustive research records on Adolph, because of his association with Newton and Flues, but it's not my research. Although the researcher (1960's) tried to paint Adolph in a positive light, much of the material indicates that Fred had a charmed but troubled life. Until his daughter is located (or grand kids), we may never know. She was absconded by her mother (out of the country) after an an engagement announcement in the local paper. I think she later married a British military officer, never to return to the US, not even for the passing of her father.

Oh yeah...George Giddings made single trigger ejector over & unders in Ilion NY. I don't know if he ever worked for Reminton but I'm almost sure he lived in German Flats, a small village of German gunsmiths next to or part of Ilion,

see http://www.google.com/patents?id=jfNsAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=1,302,909&source=bl&ots=qtV5rgIE_j&sig=l-hGowjc-xXCcBPl6x30cm1xK5M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OhADUJOBB8Oi6wHDiJ3dBg&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=1%2C302%2C909&f=false

Intresting studying the original Browning patent . I wonder how many guns were actualy built based on those drawings? They seem to be over complicated compared to the guns we or I know ,which includes one of the oldest know Brownings in the UK .

The other--largely unknown--American O/U was the Morrone--made in Rhode Island briefly in the early 50's. A small amount of 12 bores and a few 20ga guns. Looked like a Marlin 90m but a bit higher quality.

Re Petriks marked as something other than Petrik, I owned one a few years back that was marked Gastine Renette. They marketed guns from a number of makers, so that's no real surprise. I don't recall whether it was marked "fusil Petrik" anywhere.

Since the topic has come front and center again, I'll repeat my question from the past discussion: Anyone have any idea when the Petrik was first made?