|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
1 members (AZshot),
1,072
guests, and
5
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics39,515
Posts562,249
Members14,590
| |
Most Online9,918
Jul 28th, 2025
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,698 Likes: 46
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,698 Likes: 46 |
Don,
Do not want to pour water on your fire but........
Shooting Trap we do have basic standards that are well documented here in the UK.
Normally shoot IM or Full, use English size 7 or 7-1/2, if you get onto the target early you can and (they do) use M & IM choke.
It is my belief that if you as the shooter do your bit your pattern WILL have sufficient density to break the clay without having to worry about one pellet breaks.
I really cannot get my head around the reasoning behind this research unless of course due to the cost of cartridges & Lead we are going to load one pellet cartridges of a size decreed by research as having sufficient energy to break all clays likely to be thrown in competition.
Good luck in your research.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 285
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 285 |
Rocketman
The observation of the number of 1 pellet strikes surviving was really just in support of the anacdotal claim that you really need 3 - 4 strikes to be fairly sure of a kill - which the observation appears to support. We have all seen clays just break in half, probably as a rsult of a 1 pellet strike - and very grateful we are for them - but we have also seen puffs of dust come off clays - also probably as a result of 1 pellet strikes.
I will still advise on shot size and choke choice that will give a 3 - 4 pellet strike on a particulare target, with sufficient energy to cause significant damage and hopefully a very good chance of a 'kill'.
You may have missed the point slightly on the three pellet strikes. I think we can safely assume that there were at least - and probably many more - 3 pellet strikes than one pellet strikes - and only 1 survived!
Maths was never my best subject!
All I can say from this very limited and very unscientific observation is that there were no 4 pellet strike survivors but a significant number of 1 pellet survivors so it would be sensible to direct any energy towards ensuring 3+ pellet strikes by whatever means.
I have actualy seen clays broken by the wad! now what is the probability of that - they still go down as a 'kill'!!!
John
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,573 Likes: 165
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,573 Likes: 165 |
Today at the ground I put on a going away orange target - trap just to the right and slightly in front of the cage, throwing a slightly quartering bird towards the left. We fire around 200 targets. I picked up 40 unbroken, 7 had one strike hits, two had 2 strike hits and one had three strikes. A few would have broken when they hit the ground, probably a higher proportion of the struck targets than the undamaged ones, but it was not designed as a scientific experiment.
I guess one could draw conclusions from this small sample.
1. All 4 pellet strikes broke the clays.
2. Almost all the 3 strike broke the clays. 1/2% didn't.
3. Around 1/6th (17%) of the unbroken targets were hit by 1 pellet and did not break. Check your numbers, please. I see 3 1/2% (7/200) didn't break.
John Don, I think you and John are speaking different languages as far as math goes. There were 40 UNBROKEN targets, 7 of which were hit by one pellet. His 16% is a percentage of the UNBROKEN targets hit by one pellet, not a percentage of all those thrown. No way to tell how many of the 160 that did break were struck by only one pellet. You can only compute how many did NOT break from a single pellet strike. And you do not know what % of 3 strike hits failed to break a target, because--once again--you don't know how many 3 strike hits resulted in a break. All you know is that one target, out of 40 unbroken ones, had 3 pellet strikes. That would be 2 1/2% of all the unbroken targets, or 10% of all the unbroken targets which showed pellet strikes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
Thanks, Larry, for that point of view. I hadn't looked at it that way. I'm currently doing test development to see if I can generate a significant number of single pellet hits; provable by recovering broken targets. Then, we can really look at broken to unbroken ratios. Right now,it looks like I'll be getting two pellet strikes as a by-product. However, I think three and up will be sketchy due to the extent of target damage.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 83
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 83 |
I think the clay manufacturers are making the clays more resilient. I just know I'm hitting the targets but they won't do their part and break. :-) yeah....thats whats happening to me too! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 285
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 285 |
This may give food for thought on future experiments.  Looks like 15 - 18 strikes to me - and they arn't the very hard clays!! I'm afraid I have no info on shot size etc but the guy was certainly using plenty of choke. It was a going away target just below the shooters feet, shot from a 6' high platform - so slightly down in the target. As I run a sporting layout most people use 8 & 7.5 shot. The distance would have been 25yards - possibly 30 for us slow old folk!!. The clay had one hole and a significant crack in it and a chip out of the rim. Bit unlucky I guess!! John
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
