doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Small shoot in England

Roy
It has no makers name but someone else suggested it might be by Tolley - any info would be most welcome - I will ,post a few deatiled photos later on.
John

Excellent!

I've been lucky enough to be out on a couple days like that in and around Dorset, they do make a rare memory.


Destry

Here are a few detailed photos of the punt gun. Any suggestions re it's maker would be of great interest. It weighs in at just under 1 cwt, 9 ft long, 1 13/16" at the muzzel and 2" chamber. I had 3 cartridges made. Using what information I could find and using the old formula of 1 oz of shot 6 lb of gun I use 18 oz of shot and use the same measure for the coarse black powder - which works out at around 3 oz.
The chamber has a 10 thou taper and the dovetail for the cartridge head has a 5 thou taper to aid easy loading. From the chamber taper we assumed it was made for a brass cartridge rather than a paper one - they seem to work OK. I use a .38sp case loaded with fine BP to act as the primer - it has never failed to fire first time as yet. It is non rebounding so you have to half cock the cocking leaver to insert or remove the cartridge. The barrel is covered in shrunk on canvas painted grey - I guess to protect it from the salt It's a great bit of fun.

















John

That is a nice gun for certain. Do you do much punting?


Destry

John,From the photos of your punt gun[A Breech loading Stanchion Gun] one can see that it dose not feature the sliding breech design patented by Tolley.
The breeching is similar in design to that invented by;
Captain G.Gould,Mr Henry Holland and Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey.[Perhaps Britains most famous wildfowler and punt gunner]. Ultimately this design was patented and made by Messrs, Holland of Bond Street.A detailed drawing of this gun is found on page 484 of Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey,s book,"Letters to Young Shooters",Third series,published in 1896.
The Black powder proof mark seen in the photo is of Birmingham origin.The mark is indistinct and could well be a Ketland proof mark. If this was the case,it could indicate the possible conversion of a barrel from A muzzle loading gun to breech loading.
On the side of the action away from the cocking lever there appears to be some worn engraving.Could this be a makers name or patent number?
One interesting feature of the gun is the use of a buttress thread on the breech plug. This type of thread is not seen in the drawings of the patent gun refered to earlier.
Should you ever wish to build a punt, design details are to be found in Sir Ralphs book.

Roy,
It's a great shame there is no makers name. As you can see it is well built and the action has a very smooth click when cocking. They have taken the trouble to number all the screws and to put a taper on the dovetail is a nice touch.
The proof mark puts it at pre 1904 as far as I can work out. Those are the only two marks I can see - no load, barrel dia or chamber - no nitro proof. These marks could be hidden under the canvas covering. I guess all be can say that it is post circa 1860 (centre fire) and before 1904. Unless of coarse anyone knows any different??
Here in the Uk you can still use a punt gun of less than 1 1/2" to shoot live quarry. Mine is a little over that - and it isn't something you can do quietly!!! - so I guess a punt is an irrelevance. If a gun is over 2" dia it is no longer classed as a shotgun and has to go on a firearms certificate. The chap I bought it off has a photo of his father with the gun - apparently he used it last during his university years - unfortunately he hasn't managed to find it yet. I would guess this amy have been between 1st & 2nd World Wars.
Have you read the Chesapeak - they had great fun with punt guns in that book.
If you have the Galway Payne book I would love a scan of the punt gun details - have been looking for the book for a while but no luck yet. If you could scan it please send me a PM and I will supply e-m address.
John
PS Did you check out the video clip on the other half of this thread - 'more shoot photos'?

Hello 'Old Farmer'(John?)

Try a Web search for this book, I did, just 30 mins ago and found a copy here in the U/K at �55.00 I bought it on line and am looking forward to reading it in a few days. If you haven't got a copy of what pages you need by then, I'll scan them for you and send them too you. I'll send you PM as soon as it arrives.

Regards,

Harry

I received my copy of Sir R.Payne-Gallwey's book, 'Letters to Young Shooters', (3rd Edition, published by Longmans Green in 1896, in the post this morning. It appeared to have never been opened as most of the pages were still attached to each other by the folds that are usually trimmed off during the binding process. This is not uncommon in books of the late 1800's and I have met with many similar over the years.

This is a weighty tome (over 2" thick)and in more ways than one, and the section devoted to Punt Guns, punts and techniques used in shooting etc, run from pages 455 to 616. Sadly the book, never having been used has a very tight spine and I am wary of opening it flat to try and scan in any page, in case the spine breaks on bending. (I know if I were a 115 years old, my spine wouldn't give much. It doesn't give much now and I'm only 68).

There can't be a more complete book on Punt Gunning anywhere. It covers all forms of Punt Guns, muzzle and breech loading, gun dimensions, powder and shot charges, primers ,caps, details of shot. There's even a large section on design and construction of the 'Punts' themselves. The types of paddles, oars and even sails that can be used and the techniques in using them to hunt wildfowl.

This really is a book that deserves re-printing, so that this knowledge can be passed on to new generations of Wildfowlers. It may not be legal in many places now and is somewhat restricted here in Britain by licencing difficulties. Imagine trying to find a 'gun safe' for a Punt Gun 10 feet or more long.

I would certainly recommend anyone interested in such a form of hunting to try and obtain a copy of this volume from old, antiquarian or specialist booksellers.

I mentioned sometime back last year that I had been Punt Gunning once in my teens, as the 'paddler' in a 'punt' off the Island of Lindisfarne (Holy Island) on the Northumberland coast, in North East England. That was 50 years ago, but I really would like to try it again.

I can tell you, that punts can go faster backwards then forwards, especially under heavy recoil. lol.

Harry

Hello Harry,

Maybe you could take pictures of the pertinent pages keeping the covers at 90�?

Just a thought.

JC

Harry
PM sent - let me know if it arrives OK ?
John