doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com EPA bans lead shot use with depredation permits

Gee, still nobody with enough gumption to defend the ability to shoot lead in aquatic settings?

(which is where most the federal bird depredation permits are issued around catfish and other aquaculture farms....)

Last evening the local Republican party had their annual fund raiser/party. We have a new TEA party Rep. House rep. and both I and the local NRA chairman hit on him hard about this F&WS lead ban. Both Bill Flores and his chief of staff took notes and said they would persue the issue and took our phone #'s and e-mail addresses.

If we want this different then we all collectively need to charge at the bastards.

Gee, no slimy worms with the gumption to produce a link to a spurrious accusation???

In answer to your stupid question, there was a lot of defense of shooting lead in aquatic settings the last time we debated your lead ban bullshit. You and everyone here knows that almost all of the lead that was ever fired over water is still on the bottoms of lakes, rivers, and swamps. No one went out there after it was banned and dredged it all up, yet miraculously, the lead poisoned waterfowl problem abruptly stopped. We don't worry about the higher rate of waterfowl lost to crippling due to use of ballistically inferior steel shot because it was never really about saving ducks. Though lead from days past is sometimes buried in silt, just as often it is churned up by flooding, boats, etc. yet it causes no more problems now than it did when the rush to ban it occurred. You have an uncanny knack of ignoring the truth for a while and hoping the truth will go away. Like a slimy worm.

Some great postings on this subject, some from folks who have done ther homework and others that just like to disagree. My biggest question is when someone disagrees with another does it have to get personal. To me it kind of degrades the subject at hand. Just an observation by an old man.

Popplecop, if you go back to the bottom of page 3 of this thread, you will see where GrouseGuy made a spurrious accusation concerning me. I called him on it and asked him to provide a link to prove his assinine statement, as he is very good a providing links to junk science to support his crazy lead ban agenda. His sole purpose here is to reel in suckers, and time and time again, we have refuted his biased pseudoscience with real world data and actual observations. Then he slinks away for awhile and lurks in the backround waiting for the subject to come up again. He poses as one of us, but he is only here to support the banning of lead ammo which would relegate most of our double guns to wallhanger status as they would become too expensive for many of us to shoot. That is his end game. I think he may have created an alter ego and is posting here under another nomme de' plume since most of us see right through him.

You are right... it does get real personal with me when anyone attacks our right to hunt and shoot, and I have the greatest contempt for the sneaky underhanded backdoor attempts to undermine the Second Amendment.

I will offer an apology to the slimy worms and other gutless invertebrates I compare to Ben.

Kieth, it isn't only my SxSs but also my self loaders (old A5s) my O/Us because I have some that are older than I am. All I'm saying there are anumber aways fo disagreeing without getting personal. May be I'm too touching on this subject because of watching my govenor and legislature acting like grade school children the last couple of weeks. Both sides should be taken to the woodshed in my opinion. Anyway Kieth this was not to single you out just a general comment as to where this thread was going at times.

Darn . . . now we have to stop shooting lead because we're poisoning catfish?

Popplecop, your concern about older guns other than sxs is well justified. The Browning website recommends no steel shot through any of their Belgian-made guns, which would include A-5's and Superposeds. I raised the gun barrel issue with a couple Iowa DNR guys who were promoting steel shot, and they blew it off as something only impacting old and expensive sxs. It's a much more widespread issue than that. Unfortunately, that's one of those inconvenient facts the lead ban proponents do their best to minimize or ignore.

"...

On the topic, it surprises me the extent to which the board members here seem ignorant of one of the primary uses of depredation permits issued by the USFWS... it is for aquatic birds around aquaculture operations, particularly catfish farms whacking cormorants and some of the herons, in some cases even pelicans.

Is this an appropriate setting for the use of lead shot? Let me guess what we are going to read.... (if I could just get some ear protection for my eyes).[/quote]

Just for the record the General depredation order for controlling cormorants at aquacultural facilities requires the use of Non-Toxic shot.

Has since it was originally made a final order in April of 1996.

Carry on.

Fowlgunner

Hey Larry:

I'm disappointed in you this time. Your contribution above falls far short of its usual quality. Normally you take these issues seriously instead of this glib toss-away remark about catfish. We all know this isn't about catfish.

And Keith... sorry to be so slow getting to this, but you are just a dim blip way down on my priority list. To answer your repeated childish demands for proof of the things you dish-out then apparently can't remember (... have you had your lead levels tested?) see your written statement from March last year below. This is followed by the immediate admonitions to you from some of the more honorable members of this board. Couldn't remember those either, eh? Worm indeed.

"...We see who you really are Grouse Gay. As far as "family planning" goes, I have zero tolerance for gun controllers, either the straightforward types or the "backdoor boys" (pun intended) like you. So I wish someone would do an extremely late term abortion on you.
Edited by keith (Today at 02:48 PM)"

Re: Lead Shot Ban in Montana [Re: keith]
King Brown
Member
Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 3471
Loc: Nova Scotia
Keith, please remove your death wish against another member.

#174409 - Today at 04:06 PM Re: Lead Shot Ban in Montana [Re: King Brown]
Last Dollar Last Dollar
Sidelock
Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 767
Loc: N.W. Kansas
I think a lot of what"Keith" said is way out of line. Ben and many of us arent going to agree on a lot of things, but I think Ben is keeping his arguments on a pretty high level. And some good points are being made on both sides. We dont need stuff like "Keith" is posting..........
_________________________
From Hunters Ranch, N.W Kansas
Top

GG, please note the above, where fowlgunner refers to the requirements already in place around fish farms. Please note also that the original article refers to critters like crows, blackbirds, and grackles. And the American Bird Conservancy talks about shot fall on LAND, not water. Of course one might find anything ABC says to be somewhat suspect, in view of the fact that they're also up in arms because wind turbines might kill a million or so birds by 2030 (if there's that much of an increase in wind energy, in response to federal targets)--when, by their own figures, they talk about cats killing a BILLION birds a year, and another BILLION (yes, that's right . . . big B in both cases!) birds annually dying from flying into buildings. Seems we'd be better off shooting cats with those depradation permits, if it's all about the birds. Oh . . . and getting rid of buildings too!