doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Side by Side "Piper" 12gauge - 38/55

I am seeking information (for a friend) on a side by side barreled gun.
It has marking "Piper" and is a 12 gauge in one barrel and 38/55
in the other.
Any info on the history of the manufacturer or suspected vintage
would be greatly appreciated.

I think that you'll find that the maker's name is actually Pieper, pronounced "Peeper", of Liege, Belgium. The gun is known as a Cape gun because it was a style that was popular with the Dutch/Boer settlers at the Cape of Good Hope. Pieper's guns are usually "utilitarian' but the chamberings are a great combination and would be useful to own if the gun is sound.

I breifly ownded a 12GA/30-30 Pieper.
NEATHER BARREL SHOT WHERE IT WAS POINTED.
Thats not to say that another won't be good.
This one was horrid.

Does anyone's have a set trigger?

I have a Pieper 12ga with a set trigger for the front trigger. I suspect the gun came with a second set of barrels because the set I have is two smoothbore 12's.

Rob

Welcome to the bbs.

This type of gun is known generally as a "cape gun". They are not as expensive as a drilling but almost as functional. Henri Pieper is the maker. He and his family have a long history of gun making in Liege, Belgium. For some more information on Pieper take a look here:
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...%20ets%20gb.htm
Like many Belgium gun makers of his day, he often applied for his patents both in Belgium and the USA. Eventually his company took on the trade name of Bayard for many of their products.

Without pictures, it is impossible to talk about values for this gun. If your friend can take pictures of the entire gun, especially close up photos of all the markings when you take the barrels off, it may be possible to tell exactly what year the gun was made.

Pete

Note that though Henrie Pieper did not use the term "Mono-Block" he was a pioneer in their use. He was issued a patent for their construction in the US on Aug 23, 1881, it having already been patented in Belgium. Further note this was not produced by sawing off the breeches of an existing set of bbls.
I am not positive but think the term mono-block was probably coined by Berretta.

One of his more interesting uses of the mono-block was the Diana grade. The block was fluid steel, the tubes damascus with a band of fluid at the muzzles.

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/3575184557/63989a6945e3abe0080b59ea4af8098b.jpg?aa=20070123060143

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/3575184557/b3774d68baa0daee3356ae2e146322f1.jpg?aa=20070123060143

Pete

Note that guns built like this follow the original 1881 patent design. On these the breech piece is bored through on a slight taper & the tubes inserted from the rear. This is the reason for the step at the end of the block. On some later models the block was threaded part way through from the front & the tubes had a section turned & threaded to screw in, but extended only about half way through the block. These do not have the step at end of block but a smooth transition as in modern mono-block guns. Somes guns constructed as the one in Pete's ref are marked "Original Diana" while one I have of the screw-in type is marked "Modified Diana". I am however unsure if this is consistent with the construction method, or is a grade marking. The Modified Diana guns I have seen do not seem to be as high a grade as the Originl Diana.

Many thanks to all who took the time to read and respond. I will try and get some detail photos! Not sure how to post photos but will make an attempt.

Here is the original patent version:


Here is the modified version:


You can see the date on rib of the modified version is 1892. Here is the original patent:
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT2...er+1881#PPP2,M1
If he filed a another patent for the modified version, I can not locate it.

I have English and German Pieper reprints of catalogs. There were apparently grades within the Diana grade. The difference is the coverage of engraving and amount of gold inlay. Neither of the guns pictures are on the high end of those grades. Both of the examples pictured above show laminated tubes. The English catalog says the tubes are of Krupp's finest fluid compressed steel.

Pete