doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Browning Superposed 20 ga. upgrades, & Superlights

A collector will not look at an upgraded Super. In fact, an original gun that is not included in the factory records is also hard to sell. There are Grade IVs on the market right now that can't be sold for any reasonable price because they are not in the records. They are wonderful guns, but can't be documented as original, so they are almost impossible to sell, even at very low prices. The quality of work on an upgrade is rather immaterial to its value.

Bill....what if the upgrade work was done in the custom shop in the late 60's and engraved buy the top engraver of the time?
Would that make collectors look the other way as well??

CJ

The Pachmyr upgrades are gathering some following.

This information is based on a very limited sample of two Superposed Superlights, a 12 ga made in 1969 with an inertia trigger purchased used in 1978 and a 20 ga with a mechanical trigger purchased new in 1974.

Both triggers gave a signigicant amount of trouble, to me and to friends who shot them. They were both sent to Browning for repairs twice, returned after about a year each time and still gave problems. I no longer own them.

A 12 Lightning with an interia trigger purchased new in 1970 and shot much more extensively than the two Superlights on the other hand has never had a trigger problem.

The twenty gauge Superlight was too light for me to control well, probably due to my normally shooting much heavier guns. The stock had a drop at comb of around 1 3/8 inch and fit me well.

The 12 ga Superlight had much more drop than the 20, and more than the Lightning which has around 1 1/2 inch. I shot it with a Meadows Pad to raise the comb.

My experience may not be typical but here it is for what it's worth. I suggest that if at all possible you shoot a Superlight for fit before you buy one. You might also be cautious about Superlight triggers.

I personally recommend Lightnings rather than Superlights.

CJO, I have a friend here in MD who made friends with a shooter in Belgium who had access to Browning engravers who upgraded some guns for him. I even supplied him 20 bore solid rib guns for upgrading that he found hard to find himself. His guns were hard core documented with paperwork, names, you name it. They were also exceptional work, with woodwork as well as metal work, heel and toe plates, three piece forends, just great maximum effort guns. He still has a couple that he did not sell. These are in a different category than upgraded US style graded guns with less than stellar woodwork. The guns I describe, and I think you describe, are well worth spending money on. US style graded guns that can't be documented by the Browning historian are of much less interest and sell for much less money. Of course, many buyers get talked into non original guns at high prices, but I think they have trouble reselling these guns to educated collectors. Hope to see you down here at the Southern or the Vintagers. Murphy

Yes Bill that's kind of what I meant,....might bring it down to the Southern for you to see...I think Ron and I are heading down this spring....BTW I hear you like Lefevers with chain damascus

CJ

Certainly.

I'm no expert, but my one experience with purchasing a 20 gauge Pigeon Grade from the pre-salt era that had been "upgraded" by adding raised white and yellow gold pigeon inlays into where they were ordinarily engraved on the action suggests it doesn't enhance value. The inlays had been done at the time the gun was originally purchased new from Paul Jaeger's shop in Jenkintown, PA. At the same time, Jaeger's put an oil finish on the stock and opened the chokes to improved cylinder and modified, adding the stamps so that the chokes were properly marked. I paid about what a Grade I in similar condition would have brought. I'm not a collector and really love the gun, but I can state with some certainty that the work, though quite nice, did not enhance the price.

Thanks to all. This is very helpful information. I'll be approaching this very carefully.

Generally speaking, I've decided to continue looking at these guns "for their value to me;" meaning a gun that I'd be happy looking at every time I pull it out of the safe, dimensions and attributes that I'd like to hunt with occasionally in the right conditions, and last but not least, I want to lose little money if I ever choose to sell it.

This strategy opens up a world of upgrades and anomalies that if priced right,become worthy of consideration.

I don't collect any more...but I respect those of you that do, and the wisdom of your perspective.

There have been a lot of people doing upgrades .I have seen a lot ,some are excelent and have been done to a very high standard .Others have been done to a budget and I've had the misfortune to have one or two of these in for corrective work . One had bad barrels and was only .001" in proof another had had a 1968 Birminghan reproof at.740"!!!Not to mention odd extractors and butcherd inside work .
I saw some done by John Foster, for example, that were built on top class actions with all bore and choke sizes as original .When it comes down to the bottom line you get what you pay for,but be certain what you are paying for.
Have a look at the photos. www.johnfostergunmaker.co.uk