doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ah the joys of auction

It got me thinking, the auction scene, I'm not sure what it's like in the US but here in the UK, clearly we are much smaller and it's easier to get to more of them for all of us, but there are usually 2-3 big ones in London around now. With Holt's big Christmas bonanza just done it made me realise a bit about what goes on at these big auctions.

There are some guns that are definitely just a bit unique, like the three barrelled Dixon round action 16 bore that went for �43K (plus 22.5% commission of course) and a few other guns with prominence this time around.

However, there was also lots of what I call, well "crap" I suppose. It's not really crap it's just the stuff pitched at �3-400 that someone has blued the pins up a bit on or hidden a small surface crack in or usually a combination of both!

My problem is that I'm quite interested in that crap and the problem is that these guns get lifted out of where they should be value wise and driven off into the heady realms of the mid to upper guns. At Holt's last week I was astounded to see a fairly OK hammer gun rated at �2800 go for �12K and the round action of course estimated at �25K going for a whopping �43K.

It's all fine of course, no-one can complain, the bottom line is you know when you raise the card, touch your forehead, squawk down the telephone or press the internet button that you are about to commit to something that you are willing to pay for...plus commission.

Down to my point. I went to see a few guns there, I in fact bought a Grant, not a lot of people would have been interested in it because it was broken in the lower horns, but for me, it was a nice example, crisp, a high-ish grade and perfect for my gun restoration therapy. It was the most expensive gun I've bought from an auction but I wanted it for the right price and it was mine.

I was after a 20 bore "anything" for a friend but they all went for well over �800 (plus commission ahem...) and it was too much for him. No deals here.

Bottom line is this. Holt's are in there to make money. The experience is fine;

- Plenty of space to look around
- No crowding, when I went anyway, but so much space mitigates this
- Courteous and polite staff
- Very much a customer focus, go on, pick the gun up, have a proper look, all above board and fairly relaxed
- Great backup and support, invoice, clarity, thanks

You get what you pay for. It re-affirmed my belief that you simply have to go and have a look. This stuff cannot be done at arm�s length. Get someone (like a Dig or another gunshop owning friend in my case) to look too and give a view. Then you can confidently big without (too) many heart failing potential findings later.

But the drive from above appears to get people in a lather and the smaller less assuming guns get lifted too and that's a shame...no bargains here...

Just my observation.

Cheers

T

Same thing here Tony, the nature of the beast........

Best Regards,

I would love to attend the UK auctions, but I'm afraid I would be a a disadvantage trying to communicate in a foreign language.

Did you see this 16g H&H Royal? It hammered down for �20K! Nice friggin' gun.

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...7&saletype=

I think some stuff went for way more than it would have brought over here - like this Edwinson Green sidelock. This gun would never bring that kind of dough over here:

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...1&saletype=

This Greener looked like an OK deal:

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...9&saletype=


I've tried to buy from UK houses, but it always turns into too much $ and hassle.

I've heard lots of horror stories, too. And once it's over here, what are you going to do?

Hope you feeling wel, btw.

OWD

Hi guys,

Eightbore, I know what you mean, It takes me time to understand Inglish too .../wink

doubles; The Greener didn't sell it appears. I did notice it and it was a nice example actually...but I'm not prepared to pay for one even if it did appear to be a Greener blue rock style.

T

Absolutely agree Tony. I have been going to viewings now for the past three years and feel I have learnt a lot from doing this, more especially what to watch out for and be wary of. A case in point - by visiting auctions, I am now much more aware than I was of some of the core issues with certain big bore guns that have been offered for sale at auction in recent years. Ring bulges are sometimes tough to spot in a viewing room, you can struggle to measure bore/chambers there as the tools are often not present, and the stocks on these guns often contain small cracks which can quickly grow larger when firing 2oz loads through them regularly!

Unless you have the training as a gunsmith or expert, you can easily get caught out with an expensive mistake - one of the reasons I purchased my eight bore privately through Dig as the risk of an auction purchase with these type of guns was simply too great to take. This is not to denegrate auctions at all as they are fascinating, still contain some excellent purchases if you know where to look (and get guidance if needed) and give the opportunity to look and feel guns you would ordinarily never see - but one needs to wary and prepared before going in. As always, caveat emptor.

Sounds like eightbore has visited London where English is not the first language; even among the natives! Lagopus.....

CBL1. Yes, fascinating it is, and I always love to see great engineering. Mine field it is too. I ALWAYS get a second opinion either from someone like Dig or Matt/Francis from Francis Lovel all of whom I have tremendous respect for.

Still, it's the touching, squeezing and excitement I'm up for, then the retoration work and care trying to do my best to get it sympathetically restored (subject of course)is the real joy for me.

T

I would love to be able to attend the auctions live. There is no susbstitute for examing the guns in person when trying to make a decision to purchase.
I don't know if its a trend, or I am just paying closer attention, but the Lefever group indentified at least two high grade guns that were deliberately misrepresented by auction houses this year. One being a large and formerly reputable organization. I can understand an initial misrepresentation as the expertise on the relatively rare high end Lefevers is not widespread. But even when the errors were pointed out by multiple "experts" the errors were denied and excuses made.

DR Bob-

How did the big auction house misrepresent the Lefever? Fraud is a pretty serious allegation and I'm sure you wouldn't make it casually.

Please elaborate.

Thanks

OWD