Jay Cee,
There is a bit of a "horsefly in the yogurt" in referring to either of these guns as a P17. A true P gun has a hinged opening lever, with a clearly visible split about 3/8ths of an inch up from where it begins at the bottom of the sliding breech. Neither of these guns exhibit that detail.
I suspect, but, can't prove from here, full on custom V grades, decorated at the 17 level.
Thanks for the photos-I seldom stumble on to Darne guns in this level of condition.
"Sans Solder", in this case, refers to a barrel built without brazing, which, was considered to be hot enough to affect the structural integrity of the steel-it is a snap to build a true monobloc gun using only silver solder.
Best,
Ted
