|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
5 members (Carcano, MattH, Longknife, 2 invisible),
423
guests, and
2
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics39,489
Posts561,999
Members14,584
| |
Most Online9,918
Jul 28th, 2025
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460 |
The issue continues to come up and this might help. Please forgive the format. The aliens controlling the Google docs site from the mother ship continue to randomly change the format and spacing  http://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=17ixogftgITEblNUWtmFBv96ZvgjK6eFell8GsAWd-KIThis is certainly not the definitive study, and please let me know if you've found other marks on your vintage American double's tubes at revdoc2@cox.net
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,945 Likes: 144
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,945 Likes: 144 |
Great work Drew!! I'm travelling until about mid-October, but email me then and remind me then that I owe you pictures of some other marks.
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,403 Likes: 17
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,403 Likes: 17 |
Thanks Drew,
Great contribution to the knowledge base.
Walter c. Snyder
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 165
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,571 Likes: 165 |
Good stuff. LLH is the mark I recall seeing on most NID's. Expect Walt can verify whether that was the only source Ithaca was using during their last quarter century or so of making sxs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460 |
Courtesy of Walt; from Harry Howland
"We were getting all our barrels forged, rough drilled and rough turned from Belgium. We were purchasing them from either Samuel Buckley & Co. or from J. Riga & Co. and it was not until two or three years later that we began purchasing those barrels from the Flannery Bolt Co."
The doc has a pic of a Flues with both LLH and SB&Co
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377 |
Most interesting and excellent effort Dr. Hause. From what I can glean even as early as the 1920s folks knew very little about the composition and source of tubes stamped Armor, High-Pressure, Homo-Tensile, Nitro, Titanic, Vulcan, etc., but only that the names denoted different grades or recipes of steel. If I'm not mistaken all the aformentioned names were American steel types. I wonder if the Whiteley Steel Company was the source of the "Crown Steel" and if we could pen them a letter to get their list of manufactures using their steel: http://books.google.com/books?id=QaFMAAA...p;q&f=false ???? Kind Regards, Raimey rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
In the Musée de la Vie Wallonne in Liege there is a small exhibit that has samples of various ingots, some had very familiar names. Unfortunately, I was not allowed to photograph any of the exhibits there. I was told that 95% of all steel production in Belgium was coming from Cockerill.
As we were leaving Liege Sunday, La Fete de Wallonie was just beginning. It is a province wide celebration.
Pete
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460 |
YER KILLIN' ME RAIMEY  As previously stated, this ain't the end of this. And just found an 1893 Pigeon Grade Smith from the first run with an as yet undetermined mark on the "Crown Steel" barrels!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377 |
PeteM: Can't wait to read an article on your travels. From what I can glean even as early as the 1920s folks knew very little about the composition and source of tubes stamped Armor, High-Pressure, Homo-Tensile, Nitro, Titanic, Vulcan, etc., but only that the names denoted different grades or recipes of steel. If I'm not mistaken all the aformentioned names were American steel types. I think this just might be a little confusing as "LLH" and other Belgian tubes maker's marks on found on tubes with these names. But it seems that the stamps were applied here in the U.S. of A. and I wonder if we can sort out the tubes steel that was actually sourced here? Drew: On the "Armor Steel" with "SB&Co. T" on the 1925 Long Range Field Grade, just from the pic it appears to me that "T" is a "F". Have you put a glass to the stamp? And on the 1909 12 bore with Armor Steel tubes the right tube appears to be stamped "EH". I'm not exactly sure of the family relationship between William Burke Belknap, Belknap Hardware and Manufacturing Company, and William F. Belknap but I'm wondering if they weren't brothers being sons of Morris Burke Belknap? (see page 28-29) http://books.google.com/books?id=J30UAAA...nap&f=falseIn addition to being involved with iron & steel, the Belknap boys seems to have traveled back and forth between the U.S. of A. and Europe: http://books.google.com/books?id=SMRNAAA...nap&f=falseKind Regards, Raimey rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377 |
Anyone know who owns the Syracuse Grade C(late-production) on page 119, DGJ(& Single Shot) Autumn 2004(Vol. 15 Issue 3)? The reason I ask is that it has Krupp steel tubes and I'm all but positive that there's an encircled(ellispe/oval) "Caveman" with a "Staff" stamp on each tube just forward of the flats. If so, were there any other American makers who sourced Sauer direct, or indirect?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
